(Updated) Questions about encoding for experienced users

General questions or discussion about HandBrake, Video and/or audio transcoding, trends etc.
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isra.lopez
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Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 8:50 pm

(Updated) Questions about encoding for experienced users

Post by isra.lopez » Fri May 11, 2018 3:00 am

This is the updated version of my post, with new information that I just got, where I try to be shorter and less long winded

Note: I just noticed that I shouldn't ask about handbrake in here. But this is mostly related to the encoding itself. In case I should move my topic let me know.
My objective is, to play the encoded files on a tablet or cellphone, but also on other devices like a TV that has an USB port, or mostly anywhere if possible. My format of choice is .mkv. I am encoding to H264, because most devices that use battery have hardware decode, which helps a lot with battery life. However, since deinterlacing can't be done when using HW decode on cellphones or tablets, I need to deinterlace when encoding.

TV SERIE # 1, NTSC DVDS, 29.97 FPS
Media info software says that the .VOB files are interlaced, and as people recomend, I tested frame by frame. The pattern was, 3 progressive frames followed by two 2 interlaced. I did some encoding tests at 29.97 FPS and 23.976 FPS using detelecine in both. The result was MOSTLY OK, but, in some parts there would still be combing artifacts, for example when a character would walk. The combing would not be on the full frame this time, but only on part of it (for example, a few milimeters to the right and to the left of the character that was walking). After the detelecine filter didn't work properly in few parts of the episode I tested, I tried with the decomb filter and it worked perfectly.

To start, I'd like to talk about framerate. Some people recommend to change it to 23.974 in case of FILM material that was telecined, like this TV serie. Other people say to change it to 24, and other people say to leave it the same as source. They say that the benefit of changing the framerate could be a smaller file size or less encoding time, but from the test I made with this tv serie, changing the framerate to 23.976 instead of the 29.97 from the dvd source didn't produce a smaller size file (size was ALMOST the same as the 29.97 encode). ENCODING TIME seems to be the same or very similar as well.

I believe that, in my case, since the TV shows that I like to watch have an intro, ending, and parts that are probably speed up / special effects, it is best to use DECOMB FILTER (when necessary) with CONSTANT FRAMERATE (SAME AS SOURCE). This could apply to the movies from my collection as well (NTSC DVDS). In my case, leaving the framerate the same as source would be more reliable than changing it, in my opinion or my understanding.

Question 1: I am right leaving the framerate as the same as source for my TV SERIES / FILM encodes? Or, in what case I should change it?

TV SERIE #2, SEASON 1, NTSC DVDS, 29.97 FPS
When I started encoding this second TV serie, I found something different. This time, when I opened the big .VOB files from the DVD source with Media Info, they all said PROGRESSIVE. When I opened one episode for a frame by frame test, the pattern was 4 progressive (unique) & 1 progressive (repeated). There were no combing artifacts that I could find after checking different parts of the episodes, but for testing purposes, I enabled the decomb filter on an encode.

Decombing is supposedly safe to be enabled even on progressive content, so I checked the episode and it seemed "perfect", except for maybe two places where I identified something rare. Example:

DECOMB
Image

NO DECOMB
Image

Edit: the images do not show for some reason... to see them, right click on the word "Image" and select "copy image url / link" on google chrome and open it on another tab. I can't figure out how to solve this. How can I post images properly? I used the img tags and an url from imgur.com

The most visible artifact is on the walls, but if you look carefully, the trees are a little bit blurred by the decomb filter (which is basically indistinguisible unless you pause)

It was obviously best to disable the decomb filter for this 1st season

TV SERIE #2, SEASON 2, NTSC DVDS, 29.97 FPS
Question 2: In season 2 of this second tv show, the .vob files are shown as progressive on media info, and my eye test seems to confirm this, showing no combing in parts with motion. The frames are 4 progressive (unique) followed by 1 progressive (repeated). I wish, if possible, to avoid having to watch one episode of every season before deciding if I should decomb or not. I suppose that it's safe to go by the eye test and not decomb this season either?

TV SERIE #2, SEASON 3, NTSC DVDS, 29.97 FPS
When I checked the 3RD SEASON of this second TV SERIE, all the big .VOB files said INTERLACED this time, but when I did the eye test the pattern was 4 progressive frames (unique), 1 progressive frame (repeated). It seems to me that Media Info is wrong and that I shouldn't trust it...

Question 3: I suppose that I should leave decombing filter OFF on this season, even though Media Info says that the .VOBs are interlaced?

TV SERIE #2, SEASON 4
Season 4 of this tv serie, shows as interlaced on Media Info, and when I play it, the pattern is: 3 progressive, 2 interlaced.

Question 4: Should I decomb at 29.97 FPS (same as source)? or should I try detelecining, even though it produced an encode with LITTLE combing on another TV serie that I tested before? and what about the framerate?

Question 5: On a little different topic, do any of you guys see any difference between, lets say, CRF 16 VERYSLOW preset VS CRF 18 SLOW preset on a HIGH QUALITY or BIG TV, or it is very hard to tell? This question is the least important of all five, but if someone knows it woud be cool to know so I can decide if some day I should try CRF 16 veryslow preset when I got a very good quality TV, as opposed to CRF 18 in the slow preset.
Last edited by isra.lopez on Sat May 12, 2018 5:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.

musicvid
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Re: Questions about encoding for experienced users

Post by musicvid » Sat May 12, 2018 3:17 pm

The answer to your questions is simple, but no one will know it until they see your required logs.

isra.lopez
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Questions about encoding for experienced users

Post by isra.lopez » Sat May 12, 2018 5:24 pm

musicvid wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 3:17 pm
The answer to your questions is simple, but no one will know it until they see your required logs.
Hey musicvid. Thanks for your time reading my post. I updated it with new information and two screenshots, hoping that it would help. Let me know if you need to know something else

rollin_eng
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Re: (Updated) Questions about encoding for experienced users

Post by rollin_eng » Sat May 12, 2018 5:33 pm

Could you please post your logs, instructions can be found here:

https://handbrake.fr/docs/en/latest/hel ... y-log.html

isra.lopez
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: (Updated) Questions about encoding for experienced users

Post by isra.lopez » Sat May 12, 2018 5:43 pm

rollin_eng wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 5:33 pm
Could you please post your logs, instructions can be found here:

https://handbrake.fr/docs/en/latest/hel ... y-log.html
What extra info is the one you need exactly? :)

I recently updated the topic, it might contain all the necessary information. Is a full log still necessary? One in C:\Users\X\AppData\Roaming\HandBrake\logs ? With or without decomb enabled?

mduell
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Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:54 pm

Re: (Updated) Questions about encoding for experienced users

Post by mduell » Sat May 12, 2018 6:06 pm

isra.lopez wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 3:00 am
Note: I just noticed that I shouldn't ask about handbrake in here. But this is mostly related to the encoding itself. In case I should move my topic let me know.
And when you post in the correct forum, you'll see the bold underlined red text on a pink background requiring activity logs and explaining why they're necessary for your request.

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