With upcoming changes to data protection and privacy laws in Europe coming into effect soon, we thought this would be a good time to remind everyone that we do have a privacy policy.
This applies to all users and visitors world-wide.

We have made a few changes to the language to make it clearer in relation to this new regulation but fundamentally, the terms and your rights are unchanged.

If you have any questions about this, please feel free to ask in the General Forum

AV1

General discussion of HandBrake, Video and/or audio transcoding, trends etc.
Forum rules
Please be aware, this forum is not for support or help related to HandBrake. Please keep such discussions to the Community Support forum sections.
Post Reply
rollin_eng
Veteran User
Posts: 2712
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 11:06 pm

AV1

Post by rollin_eng » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:06 pm


User avatar
JohnAStebbins
HandBrake Team
Posts: 5098
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:21 pm

Re: AV1

Post by JohnAStebbins » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:33 pm

Yes, we had a somewhat lively discussion in the AV1 issue thread on github yesterday https://github.com/HandBrake/HandBrake/issues/457

TL;DR, AV1 is about 30% better than x264 in quality vs. file size metrics. And it's about 6000x slower. I.e. you can make your files 30% smaller if you are willing to wait 9000 hours (a.k.a. 1 year) to encoder your feature length HD movie.

From the Facebook article:
On the other hand, the encoding computational complexity (in terms of encoding run time) of AV1 compared with x264 main, x264 high and libvpx-vp9 for CRF/QP mode was increased by factors of 5721.5x, 5869.9x and 658.5x, respectively, as shown in Figure 4.

rollin_eng
Veteran User
Posts: 2712
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 11:06 pm

Re: AV1

Post by rollin_eng » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:15 pm

:) I did see they mentioned 10 second clips that they tested it on and my napkin math put that at 12+ hours to encode :shock:

I guess if you have tons of CPUs and are serving up billions of Taylor Swift videos it might make sense to save 30%.

mduell
Veteran User
Posts: 5902
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:54 pm

Re: AV1

Post by mduell » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:38 pm

The omission of x265 is curious at best.

User avatar
JohnAStebbins
HandBrake Team
Posts: 5098
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:21 pm

Re: AV1

Post by JohnAStebbins » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:40 pm

rollin_eng wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:15 pm
I guess if you have tons of CPUs and are serving up billions of Taylor Swift videos it might make sense to save 30%.
When VP9 was initially pushed out the door, it was also extremely slow (but still faster than current AV1 by about 12x). It took a bit over 2 years for them to bring VP9 encode speed up to the point that it was acceptable for inclusion in HandBrake. I expect AV1 will be on a similar trajectory and will be keeping an eye on it as things develop. In that time, CPU speeds will increase and perhaps we will see dedicated hardware encoders supporting AV1 built into CPU or GPU silicon.

Please don't t take my comments as any disparagement against AV1. I would really like to see it succeed. But some patience is in order here.

rollin_eng
Veteran User
Posts: 2712
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 11:06 pm

Re: AV1

Post by rollin_eng » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:53 pm

Oh I’m not advocating for its inclusion in HB, just putting this out there for discussion.

I also see that Apple and Samsung are not involved as I imagine a lot of videos for YouTube and Facebook come from their devices it will be interesting to see what direction they go.

User avatar
JohnAStebbins
HandBrake Team
Posts: 5098
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:21 pm

Re: AV1

Post by JohnAStebbins » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:10 pm

For those interested in the old VP9 saga:
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=27343&hilit=month

That thread explains why I am conservative about my estimates for an AV1 HandBrake roadmap.

Starting in June 2013, I did regular benchmarks as new release came out and posted my results to the forums. When VP9 reached an acceptable state (May 2016), we added support for it to HandBrake. I'll do the same with AV1, but post results to the github issue thread instead since that's were we track development status and issues now.

Woodstock
Veteran User
Posts: 2497
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:39 am

Re: AV1

Post by Woodstock » Mon May 14, 2018 9:24 pm

So, if you start an encode of a 3 hour UHD movie with the current AV1 encoder today, by the time it finishes, there will be faster hardware and software to do a second one?

User avatar
JohnAStebbins
HandBrake Team
Posts: 5098
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:21 pm

Re: AV1

Post by JohnAStebbins » Tue May 15, 2018 3:01 pm

Woodstock wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 9:24 pm
So, if you start an encode of a 3 hour UHD movie with the current AV1 encoder today, by the time it finishes, there will be faster hardware and software to do a second one?
LOL. My 1 year estimate is for a 90 minute HD movie. So 180 minute UHD is x2 for duration and x4 for resolution, resulting in 8 years encode time. So yes, by then I would fully expect hardware and software improvements would make the next encode much faster :mrgreen:

User avatar
Ritsuka
HandBrake Team
Posts: 972
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:29 am

Re: AV1

Post by Ritsuka » Tue May 15, 2018 4:39 pm

By the time it finished, it won't play anymore in the newer av1 version (until they stop making changes for real).

Post Reply