Upscaling 480P to 720P

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Djfe
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Re: Upscaling 480P to 720P

Post by Djfe » Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:57 am

one comment on my side from this:
of course you cannot get the original quality but if the interpolation looks good or even better then bobbing should work just fine

and comparing the videos i see that 720p doesn't have an increase in resolution in comparison to 360p, but that wasn't the purpose - the purpose was to get ~60 fps - and this prupose is visible
even if interpolated, the result at 60 fps looks much better and much more fluent/smooth.

it's the same for super resolution filters or nlmeans -> they are reproducing/guessing details by comparing neighbouring pixels and interpolating the result and it looks better if the algorithm is good.

in the end the only thing that needs to be pleased is the viewers eyes. if the viewer thinks that he has lost details because of the interpolation then he will turn those filters off, else he will keep them and maybe optimize their settings for even better results (in nlmeans you can choose between several profiles)

Hanbrakeur
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Re: Upscaling 480P to 720P

Post by Hanbrakeur » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:55 am

In a normal movie, one can hardly see the difference between 30fps and 60fps. It's realy useful on video games with strict timing like 2D fighting games.

Lostless
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Re: Upscaling 480P to 720P

Post by Lostless » Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:57 am

Hanbrakeur wrote:In a normal movie, one can hardly see the difference between 30fps and 60fps. It's realy useful on video games with strict timing like 2D fighting games.
Not true, you can easily see the difference between 60FPS and 30FPS. Watch sports or the news on broadcast TV (60FPS), and then watch a sitcom ( most recorded at 30FPS) or a drama show (most recorded at 24FPS). Film movies run at 24. This tread was never supposed to be about video games or even deinterlacing for that matter. The original intention was to upload some old home movies to youtube to share with family and preserve the 60FPS of the original VHS tape. I just threw in a video game example to show examples of a 480P source and the whole tread went off track about deinterlacing.
The conclusion to this idea is that this would not be a good idea for handbrake, as the average person would possibly expect an upscaled 480P video to look better than the original and say how crappy the upscaled is.

Havor
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Re: Upscaling 480P to 720P

Post by Havor » Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:02 pm

actually i think the easiest way is to buy a HDMI recorder, and just let your video card do the up-scaling, they are really good at it.

There are many options, but the easiest i think is just to get a HDMI console recorder, Amazon sells what you need from about $75, it cost more then the free option, but i think the HB coders can spend there time on more important options and advancement for HB. :wink:

Image Image Image

From very basic to High End recording, but check if its supports MPEG2 or h264 and what you need for your upload, or you may have to REMUX it again to a format you need.

Yishai
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Re: Upscaling 480P to 720P

Post by Yishai » Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:42 pm

PLEASE LET US UPSCALE IN THE HANDBRAKE GUI ALREADY!

Indeed, in a perfect world there would be no reason to upscale anything with this method. However, we have video sites like YouTube who have their own little quirks that must be taken into account. For example, I have raw 60fps Fraps gameplay footage which I recorded in fullscreen at my monitor's native resolution (1680x1050). If I uploaded this to YouTube, I would only get the 720p and under options. I would rather upscale the video a little bit to enable 1080p playback on YouTube.

Here's another YouTube scenario in which upscaling was the only solution: There was these two cartoon clipshows I put together which had their source at 640x480. Whenever I uploaded them to YouTube at this original resolution, they would turn out with SUPER TERRIBLE aliasing / "jaggies". I had two other cartoon clipshows that were from different series that did NOT have this problem, so I guess maybe the art style had something to do with it? Anyway, uploading upscaled 960x720 versions of these clipshows fixed the jaggies, and it played as it should across all the YouTube player's resolutions. I also uploaded 960x720 upscales of the two clipshows that did NOT have the aliasing problem, and I noticed an improvement in video quality across all of the YouTube player's resolutions. It looked cleaner. Maybe YouTube's encoder has an easier time with upscales of SD materials?

Yeah, so, to summarize why we need upscaling in Handbrake in a single word: YouTube. Please don't make me to turn to pain in the [Censored] command lines or shoddy crash fests like Xmedia Recode to get the job done. There's no reason not to unlock this functionality that isn't pointless and arrogant. Just make a warning pop up whenever someone tries upscaling, explaining why people don't need to normally do this.
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Also, I thought I might as well point out a problem I've encountered with the latest Handbrake (0.10.0). It no longer detects any audio track in my raw Fraps .avi videos (which have 16-bit 96khz stereo PCM). So I've gone back to version 0.9.9, which works. This is also a problem with recent versions of VidCoder, which apparently uses the Handbrake core? I had to go back to the stable version from November 2013 for it to detect the audio track. And the only reason I was trying out VidCoder is because I was looking for a replacement to Xmedia Recode to fulfill my upscaling needs (Xmedia Recode seems pretty unstable, and whenever I try to encode a 60fps source to 30fps, it goes waaaay wrong, so I no longer trust it for anything). I wouldn't need to be doing any of this if you guys weren't FREAKING INSANE and just let us upscale in Handbrake GUI. :/
Last edited by Yishai on Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mduell
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Re: Upscaling 480P to 720P

Post by mduell » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:06 pm

If you put all the energy of writing that post into learning the CLI you'd be upscaling by now.

Havor
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Re: Upscaling 480P to 720P

Post by Havor » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:17 pm

Or at least know how to ask nicely, you would have a better chance a dev. more willing to listen to your request.

Yishai
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Re: Upscaling 480P to 720P

Post by Yishai » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:31 pm

mduell wrote:If you put all the energy of writing that post into learning the CLI you'd be upscaling by now.
Which is what I may end up doing. But the point is no one should need to. There's no reason not to have the functionality in the GUI version, besides maybe some devs thinking they know what's best for everyone in all situations.
Havor wrote:Or at least know how to ask nicely, you would have a better chance a dev. more willing to listen to your request.
Right, like the literally hundreds (probably) of other times people asked nicely for upscaling over the years? Besides, I did ask nicely and put forth decent arguments. What wasn't nice about it? Calling them "FREAKING INSANE"? What else can you call it at this point? I didn't mean any personal insult by it. I'm just venting a little. Can we not be hyper sensitive twelve-year-old girls and derail this topic over a very mild joke "insult", please? Thank you.
Last edited by Yishai on Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

Woodstock
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Re: Upscaling 480P to 720P

Post by Woodstock » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:40 pm

Of course, he could also lobby Google to make the change to allow lower-resolution video access to high frame rates, but that would be asking someone with thousands of programmers and billions of dollars to change an arbitrary restriction THEY put in their system, as opposed to a handful of unpaid volunteers...

Yishai
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Re: Upscaling 480P to 720P

Post by Yishai » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:58 pm

Woodstock wrote:Of course, he could also lobby Google to make the change to allow lower-resolution video access to high frame rates, but that would be asking someone with thousands of programmers and billions of dollars to change an arbitrary restriction THEY put in their system, as opposed to a handful of unpaid volunteers...
I can't tell which side you're being cheeky toward. Surely it is a much quicker, much less involved thing for Handbrake to remove this restriction.

Also, my gripe wasn't about YouTube's 60fps support for only 720p and 1080p (I didn't even mention that AT ALL, though I guess that was the initial argument from the original poster of the thread). Yes, YouTube should change some things, but that isn't really what MY post is about. Either way, the heart of the matter as far as this forum is concerned, is that there is a problematic restriction in the Handbrake GUI that should be removed.

Havor
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Re: Upscaling 480P to 720P

Post by Havor » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:37 pm

Actually there is a good reason for the restriction i think, it just was properly just easier to programing it that way, and was also not needed at the time, the option you ask for needs a extra function in the interface, that takes dev. time, and the dev's have also other priorities, things that they want them self see in HB.

If i ware a dev. and i saw your post, i would think, go f.... your self, you rude ass...., i dont need it, and have plenty other tings i find way more interesting to do, if you want it, do it your self, or just learn how to use the CLI.

Don't you get it, they make this program mostly for them self's, and they just sharing the fruits of there labors, and they share it even for free.

What you are asking is like if your neighbor is painting his fence, and ask you hey shale i paint your side to, and start demanding that he should use at least 3 layers of paint instead of two, your behaving is like that kind of Ahole.

mduell
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Re: Upscaling 480P to 720P

Post by mduell » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:49 pm

Seems like YouTube should be the one doing the upscaling if you upload 1050p content to make it 1080p. Your beef is really with YouTube.

Yishai
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Re: Upscaling 480P to 720P

Post by Yishai » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:11 pm

Havor wrote:Actually there is a good reason for the restriction i think, it just was properly just easier to programing it that way, and was also not needed at the time, the option you ask for needs a extra function in the interface, that takes dev. time, and the dev's have also other priorities, things that they want them self see in HB.
From what you say to the way you type it, I'm 100% sure you don't have a clue. So don't even chime in if all you're going to do is derail the thread. Let the devs speak for themselves; if they think I'm being rude, let them tell me. I don't need your useless and absolutely unwarranted lectures on manners that have nothing to do with the topic.
Havor wrote:If i ware a dev. and i saw your post, i would think, go f.... your self, you rude ass...., i dont need it, and have plenty other tings i find way more interesting to do, if you want it, do it your self, or just learn how to use the CLI.

Don't you get it, they make this program mostly for them self's, and they just sharing the fruits of there labors, and they share it even for free.

What you are asking is like if your neighbor is painting his fence, and ask you hey shale i paint your side to, and start demanding that he should use at least 3 layers of paint instead of two, your behaving is like that kind of Ahole.
Well, you're not a dev, or an adult, apparently. Any reasonable adult wouldn't ignore a smart suggestion just because they thought the person suggesting it was a little mean. To purposefully make a bad choice just to spite someone is childish. Anyway, I was straight to the point, I gave arguments, I said please, and made a little joke. I don't know what you found so offensive about it, but you need to grow up and get over it, and not throw a poorly typed little tantrum anytime someone doesn't act exactly the way you want them to. YOU sound like the entitled a-hole here. Go throw your little fit elsewhere and stop wasting everyone's time. You're not going to waste anymore of my time, anyway. Consider yourself ignored. Your posts are now invisible to me. I have no interest in fruitless off-topic arguments with children who can't even put a proper sentence together. (Also, that was a terrible analogy you gave.)

If I did insult the devs, it was not my intention, and I apologize. I just don't understand how there could be no upscaling in the GUI version after all this time and all the requests. It makes no sense.
mduell wrote:Seems like YouTube should be the one doing the upscaling if you upload 1050p content to make it 1080p. Your beef is really with YouTube.
I agree (or they should just play the video at whatever resolution it actually is), and I'm on them about it as well. But that's just not the way it is right now. And again, surely this is a much easier fix, and surely it is much easier to get the attention of a small team of passionate volunteers to get things done, as opposed to some huge, red tape entangled, soulless bureaucratic corporate mass who only care about money and world domination in the end. :p

But I know HB probably won't lift the restriction anytime soon, for whatever reason, insane or not. I have ways around the problem if need be. It's just frustrating. This is the only thing keeping Handbrake GUI from being my one and only transcoder. I hope the restriction gets lifted eventually, even if YouTube fixes it's quirks. I'm sure there's other defective, quirky players and devices out there that can benefit from this kind of upscaling.

EDIT:
Well, I've said all I have to say about the subject, so I think I'll take my leave and won't return. After reading some HB contributor replies to other people's requests on this forum, I have a feeling some condescending, selfish, uncaring, unprofessional a-hole man-child dev reply is in this thread's near future. Now I'm wondering why you guys have a public request forum at all. Sheesh.

musicvid
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Re: Upscaling 480P to 720P

Post by musicvid » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:56 pm

some condescending, selfish, uncaring, unprofessional a-hole man-child dev
The developers are volunteer, unpaid, experienced, and do this largely for their own amusement, not at the pleasure of some narcissistic hobbyist.
Nor are they going to respond favorably to your crude language, insults, and abuse.

You, with your free software download, want all of the authority and none of the responsibility.

You have one opportunity to remediate the situation you've created. As you've undoubtedly read by now, patches are welcome. You would have to improve on the existing upscaling algorithms significantly for it to pass muster here, that I can promise you. We, your peers, eagerly await some (any?) contribution of time from you, other than hyperlexic, pathological rants.

OTOH, if you have nothing to contribute but poison, you probably won't be around here long, as such people are indistinguishable from forum trolls.
Coming next: Another round of personal insults, I confidently predict.

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s55
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Re: Upscaling 480P to 720P

Post by s55 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:50 pm

Jump to conclusions much?

This thread seems to have gone on long enough so I'll end with this.

Supporting up-scaling is not a current interest of any of the developers, so in the short term at least, it's not likely to happen.

Thread Closed.

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