Handbrake Deinterlace - What Really Happens

Random chit-chat and anything that doesn't belong elsewhere
Lostless
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Re: Handbrake Deinterlace - What Really Happens

Post by Lostless » Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:53 pm

I just realized that you missunderstand what a bob filter does. It is not interpolation where frames are created out of thin air like the "soap opera" effect that some hdtvs can do. Bobing literally pulls the frames out of each field and reassembles them into a 60p. To keep the motion information to translate into world of progressive video.
This whole argument is on theory and not what a production house would do, and you have yet to acknowledge that the theory that Jack and I say is correct. There more to this than just video game captures. I would also
Like to preserve my old home VHS home movies to look as close as possible as they did on a SDTV on the world of digital files. To preserve as much as I can before the the original VHS source fades away.
jack, I've read your long winded posts, and you are on point.
I just hope someone learns something by reading this thread and it wealth of information it contains.

JackNF
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Re: Handbrake Deinterlace - What Really Happens

Post by JackNF » Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:15 pm

musicvid, at this point I think everything I have to say has already been said over and over by now. The other thread got derailed when I saw something I took as a factual error on your part at a fundamental level, tried to make a quick clarification, and heads started butting. Lostless's examples I think have finally gotten the point across to you what my words failed to do as you did find it "remarkable" that anyone would prefer to focus on preserving higher framerates (60 fields per second becomes 60 frames) rather then on merging and processing those fields to boost individual frame quality at 30fps. I only bothered posting the VidFIRE link as a coda of sorts, an example of where the loss of motion detail in a deinterlaced video (granted a primitive analog method of deinterlacing with low quality output with a detour through a film intermediary, but with the same conceptual result) has had a tangible negative effect such as to warrant extraordinary measures to try to undo that loss by people who are very very picky about overall picture quality (even if it means faking it).

musicvid
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Re: Handbrake Deinterlace - What Really Happens

Post by musicvid » Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:28 pm

Lostless,
Again, you seem inclined to put words in my mouth.
Please refrain, it's disrespectful.

First you said Handbrake is a dumb bobber, which implies simple interpolation.
Field Interpolation is not defined as "where frames are created out of thin air."
Now you say something quite different, to wit: "Bobing [sic] literally pulls the frames out of each field and reassembles them into a 60p. "
Which is it? Something that's been around since about '01, or alchemy?

Where are your tests to prove either notion?
I acknowledged that your sample looked pretty good for what it is. Can you just let it go at that, or else start posting some hard evidence to support your claims (which seem contradictory)?
Or at least the 720p 60 (and 720p 30) samples from Handbrake I suggested, to lend some credibility to your feature request?

Or your Youtube page with the results? Or your published tutorials with supporting data?

Start another thread with Jack. Begin with the tests. Post your results at doom9, or dvinfo, or phillipbloom, or creativecow, or frapsforum (mine are). Anything. Please. Just stop blathering.

I voluntarily bowed out of your feature request thread, using the words "peaceful conclusion." Now I must ask you to afford me at least the same degree of consideration.
Last edited by musicvid on Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

musicvid
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Re: Handbrake Deinterlace - What Really Happens

Post by musicvid » Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:02 am

HandyMan,
If you're still looking, here something of interest on Youtube.
It's high motion 1080i HDV that I bobbed and resized to 480p 60, then resampled to 30p Slomo.
Compared to the HDV source, it's pitiful on Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxIWBdz ... sgNjNoQG5Q

Lostless
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Re: Handbrake Deinterlace - What Really Happens

Post by Lostless » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:01 am

I bow to your request for this to end and I will not post anything else on this topic after this post, unless you ask a question, I will answer. But you asked for information on my view and Youtube videos to show the need for my original request.
for information on interlacing, besides the www.100FPS.com site i also found found this. http://scanline.ca/deinterlacing/ It explains the exact same thing regarding interlacing and why it was used.
The youtube videos on posted on the original forum where the topic is relevant.

musicvid
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Re: Handbrake Deinterlace - What Really Happens

Post by musicvid » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:28 am

handbrake can't upscale.
Yes, it can. One who claims to teach must never refuse to learn.

Lostless
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Re: Handbrake Deinterlace - What Really Happens

Post by Lostless » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:34 am

musicvid wrote:
handbrake can't upscale.
Yes, it can. One who claims to teach must never refuse to learn.
In the GUI for simplicity sake. I know the CLI can do it.

musicvid
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Re: Handbrake Deinterlace - What Really Happens

Post by musicvid » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:36 am

Show me you can do it.
(With a link to a fileshare upload, not Youtube).
Otherwise, I'll have to assume you've got nothing.

Lostless
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Re: Handbrake Deinterlace - What Really Happens

Post by Lostless » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:45 am

Do what? Use the CLI? Upscale a video? What would you like me to achieve? We are going off topic.

Lostless
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Re: Handbrake Deinterlace - What Really Happens

Post by Lostless » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:49 am

musicvid wrote:Show me you can do it.
(With a link to a fileshare upload, not Youtube).
Otherwise, I'll have to assume you've got nothing.
I had the Mario Kart video. I'm confused by what you are looking for.

HandyMan
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Re: Handbrake Deinterlace - What Really Happens

Post by HandyMan » Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:38 am

musicvid wrote:HandyMan,
If you're still looking, here something of interest on Youtube.
It's high motion 1080i HDV that I bobbed and resized to 480p 60, then resampled to 30p Slomo.
Compared to the HDV source, it's pitiful on Youtube.
I have seen some ugly thing when bob-ing film broadcast @ 1080i. I am not pretending that bob is the 'way' to de-interlace. But my sample is a digital HDTV source instead of a Analog source (game). I was kind of surprised that it encode nicely into a 60 Frame/sec progressive @12080x720 :).
I encoded it to 1080p to see if this would reveal artifact or combing, and I didn't notice much apart from the letters in the graphics.

Could this be from a 720P source converted to 1080i for broadcast?
So by bob-ing it I can 'restore' it to the original 720P format.

musicvid
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Re: Handbrake Deinterlace - What Really Happens

Post by musicvid » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:25 pm

Let's move this over to a new thread on bobbing
HD so as not to confuse those who were following the SD thread.
I've not been impressed with bobbing analog SD, which is messy. Software upscaling is out of the question afaiac.
I am, however impressed with the results of your bobbed HD source. More to come, feel free to start a new thread.

JackNF
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Re: Handbrake Deinterlace - What Really Happens

Post by JackNF » Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:03 pm

Yeah I highly doubt this one specific use case (tricking youtube into allowing 60fps) is going sway the developers into allowing upscaling in the GUI, nor should it as the main reason that upscaling is currently blocked (to keep people who don't really know what they're doing from doing something stupid, thus avoiding any headaches that might come from people complaining that their SD upscales aren't as good as blu-ray or some other such nonsense) is still very much valid. If you know enough to know you have a very specific use case that requires upscaling then taking the time to figure out the commandline isn't that difficult.

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