Apple TV and 5.1 support - some definitive answers

Discuss encoding for devices and presets.
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ragboy
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Re: So my test finished, but it's just static! WTF?!

Post by ragboy »

numbers987654321 wrote:Ok- So I'm not sure why I'm getting just static now, but that's a pain. I must have changed a setting or something. The resulting file was 3.64 gigs, though. I bit on the large side.
Well, I ripped one of my favorite test dvds again. The Fifth Element Ultimate edition. I used HB at 2000kbps 2 pass. For me, I can't really tell any difference above 1800 on most DVDs. I ended up with a 1.92 GB mp4.

I did my ac3 to ddwav conversion, then to lossless, then added to movie and removed PLII track, and ended up with 2.6 gigs. I didn't do anything special, but sync is perfect, and I get full DD 5.1 sound on my ATV.

ac3 to ddwav just makes a huge file, which is a bummer, but hey, it works. I am thinking that if HB did the ac3 to ddwav, they could leave off the lossless part, it doesn't save much.

I am not sure if I got lucky, but I think the sync issue may be helped by using mplayer to dump the AC3 audio, and not a straight demuxer.
Tazintosh
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:57 am

Post by Tazintosh »

DolbyPro Logic II has nothing to compare with Dolby Digital.
It's like we were comparing Dolby Digital with DTS (way best)… (I'm caricaturing).

I'll try your tracks this evening (France) and give my audio configuration.
numbers987654321
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:34 am

Encode technique

Post by numbers987654321 »

Ragboy-

Are you encoding your video and audio separate, and then adding them to a self-contained mov within QTP? I tried muxing and encoding together (which took forever).

I'm trying separate now to see if there is a difference. I wonder if Apple Lossless Fast vs Normal vs Best makes a difference as well.
ragboy
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Re: Encode technique

Post by ragboy »

numbers987654321 wrote:Ragboy-

Are you encoding your video and audio separate, and then adding them to a self-contained mov within QTP? I tried muxing and encoding together (which took forever).

I'm trying separate now to see if there is a difference. I wonder if Apple Lossless Fast vs Normal vs Best makes a difference as well.
I posted my procedure here:

http://www.garcias.com/TheGarcias/Dad%2 ... 6FE4E.html

I don't think it matters on the best etc for lossless. Even though my procedure doesn't mention lossless, I did use lossless on my TFE rip, and it works on my ATV.
numbers987654321
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:34 am

AppleTV can Play the Wav?

Post by numbers987654321 »

This is interesting... I could have sworn that I tried doing this, and it wouldn't show the movie on AppleTV if the soundtrack was a wav. That's why I tried encoding the wav to lossless, which worked.

I must be going crazy.
numbers987654321
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:34 am

Pretty sure you need lossless

Post by numbers987654321 »

Just tried to add the dd-wav to an h.264 video in a mov container. AppleTV can't see it. I think you need to convert audio to lossless for it to work. Let me know if it's worked otherwise for you.
ragboy
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Re: Pretty sure you need lossless

Post by ragboy »

numbers987654321 wrote:Just tried to add the dd-wav to an h.264 video in a mov container. AppleTV can't see it. I think you need to convert audio to lossless for it to work. Let me know if it's worked otherwise for you.
I did so many tests, I am not sure, but the ones I have up there now, are lossless, I will try one without, and let you know.
Tazintosh
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:57 am

Post by Tazintosh »

Tests results:

DTS_Leader_DTSWAV.mov : static sound (encoding may have destroyed some essentials informations about DTS detection);
dts_leader.dts.wav : static sound (even using AirTunes);
DTS_Leader_Stereo.mp4 : works, nothing amazing.

All my personnals tests with DTS were ok, playing them as .aiff or Apple LossLess file or playing them right on movies (only as Apple lossLess).

THX_AAC51.mp4 : basic decoding on amp. Nothing special even with DolbyPro Logic II activated on the amp. Basic audio separation.
THX_DPLII.mp4 : good audio separation, all channels are more accurates.
THX_DDWAV.mov : the best of this test selection. Amp have automatically switched on Dolby Digital decoding. Bass are presents and deep.

Tested on:
Pioneer VSX-AX2AS-S
Klipsch RF25 Pack
Yamaha YST 1500
LG 37 LC2D
ragboy
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Re: Pretty sure you need lossless

Post by ragboy »

ragboy wrote:I did so many tests, I am not sure, but the ones I have up there now, are lossless, I will try one without, and let you know.
Y, it def requires lossless. I thought I did a test without, but I guess not. I just did Monsters Inc, using the same procedure with and without lossless, only lossless worked. The good news is that it is in perfect sync.

I will update my procedure.
numbers987654321
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:34 am

My Sync is off.

Post by numbers987654321 »

Just did Superman Returns. The sync is off by a milisecond or so. Annoying. Sound is ahead of the picture. Is there a way to nudge it in QTP? OR, is there a way to demux so you get exact video and audio lengths? Media Streamclip, for some reason, gives different lengths.

Also, be careful. For some reason, the first milisecond, when you press play, or fastforward, is static. It's loud as hell. I think the receiver takes an instant to recognize the DD. I wonder if there is a way to add a silent header into the file, so when it starts, if your sound it turned up, you won't get a blast of static.
Jhaap
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:46 pm

ProRes 422 perhaps???

Post by Jhaap »

Maybe ATV supports the new ProRes 422 codec introduced by Apple at NAB full HD video with SD filesizes and full surround support. Just an idea... Also HD in iTunes Store in ProRes makes hell of alot of sence!!!
ragboy
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Re: My Sync is off.

Post by ragboy »

numbers987654321 wrote:Just did Superman Returns. The sync is off by a milisecond or so. Annoying. Sound is ahead of the picture. Is there a way to nudge it in QTP? OR, is there a way to demux so you get exact video and audio lengths? Media Streamclip, for some reason, gives different lengths.

Also, be careful. For some reason, the first milisecond, when you press play, or fastforward, is static. It's loud as hell. I think the receiver takes an instant to recognize the DD. I wonder if there is a way to add a silent header into the file, so when it starts, if your sound it turned up, you won't get a blast of static.
My denon, only does that static for a fraction of a second. Did you try to use the method I described to get the ac3 file, using mplayer? I am 2 for 2 with perfect sync, and will keep doing more. Will let you know.

I am going to get a new denon, so I can test with DTS. I am looking at a 4306.
Jhaap
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:46 pm

Or maybe not...

Post by Jhaap »

http://images.apple.com/finalcutstudio/ ... Res_WP.pdf

...I just read the whitepaper and I'm not so sure anymore :-)
numbers987654321
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:34 am

Frame Rate

Post by numbers987654321 »

What frame rate are you using? Maybe that's the issue. Did you switch to 24 or are you using 29.97?
numbers987654321
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Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:34 am

AC3enc

Post by numbers987654321 »

Too bad AC3enc is not on OSX, so we don't have to trade back and forth to the PC. I wonder if it's possible to port that. I looked at the (incomplete) source, and it looks like it uses some Windows calls.

What size are you getting on your completed backups, BTW?
ragboy
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Re: AC3enc

Post by ragboy »

numbers987654321 wrote:Too bad AC3enc is not on OSX, so we don't have to trade back and forth to the PC. I wonder if it's possible to port that. I looked at the (incomplete) source, and it looks like it uses some Windows calls.

What size are you getting on your completed backups, BTW?
I use HB to rip, and leave fps at same as source. I just did a new one, marie antoinette, and it was 1.52gb with 160kbps DPLII and 2.24GB with ddwav.

Marie Antoinette is a butthair off in sync.

No flames about the movie please, I am married, and have 4 daughters, 2 teenagers. :)
numbers987654321
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Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:34 am

Nudge

Post by numbers987654321 »

Do you know if there is a way to nudge the audio once it's muxed?
ragboy
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Re: Nudge

Post by ragboy »

numbers987654321 wrote:Do you know if there is a way to nudge the audio once it's muxed?
Before handbrake, I used to use several tools, and 3ivx. There was a tool, just for this specifically. I don't remember what it was called. If I remember, I will let you know. You can do some adjusting in QTPRO, but its a pain.
ragboy
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Re: Nudge

Post by ragboy »

numbers987654321 wrote:Do you know if there is a way to nudge the audio once it's muxed?
Here is something:

http://www.applesolutions.com/bantha/Sync.html

But its going to be very difficult to do, since you can watch and listen, on your mac.
ragboy
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Post by ragboy »

Tazintosh wrote:DTS_Leader_DTSWAV.mov : static sound (encoding may have destroyed some essentials informations about DTS detection);
dts_leader.dts.wav : static sound (even using AirTunes);
DTS_Leader_Stereo.mp4 : works, nothing amazing.
Thanks for checking, I can't get ANY dts waves to work on my receiver. So I think I am going to look at upgrading my receiver, and do some more testing.
Tazintosh
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:57 am

Post by Tazintosh »

You can test this DTS track from Mark Knopffler.
For reasons of copyright, the track is not complete (only 1 minute) and will stay on my server only few hours. Thanks for understanding.

DTS_Mark_Knopffler.aif
numbers987654321
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:34 am

This is kind of unrelated, but kind of related - Cover Art

Post by numbers987654321 »

Has anyone else had issues applying cover art to the mov files once imported into iTunes? (dd-wav + h264 method)

If you try to replace the art with the DVD cover (from IMDB), it won't let you.

I tried renaming the file to mp4, same issue.

When I renamed it to m4v, it actually locked the cover art tab. And when you checked the info in finder, the file type was m4p. It somehow thinks it's a protected file.

Anyone find a way around this? It's annoying. Besides the cover art and the size of the files (3 gb), the 5.1 rocks.
loyalty_anchored
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Re: This is kind of unrelated, but kind of related - Cover A

Post by loyalty_anchored »

numbers987654321 wrote:Has anyone else had issues applying cover art to the mov files once imported into iTunes? (dd-wav + h264 method)

If you try to replace the art with the DVD cover (from IMDB), it won't let you.
this same issue occurs in itunes when the mp4 file contains an AAC5.1 as audio stream.
madison

Post by madison »

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numbers987654321
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Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:34 am

So... Do you think this may make a future verson of HB?

Post by numbers987654321 »

Just wondering if the dd-wav encode may make a future version of handbrake, or if the hope is that Apple will somehow enable the AAC 5.1 to transcode on-the-fly to DD or DTS. I can just do it manually for now, but it would be nice if I could do the encode in one step in handbrake in future releases. One issue, for sure, is size. About 3gb, cause the lossless dd-wav is about a gig. So you add video at 2000kbps, and you're at 3 gig. Thoughts?
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