Video quality settings for @TV Take 2...

[flybynight]

You could set the vbv-maxsize and vbv-bufsize (I think those are the names, I'm at work so I can't verify). This would basically set a ceiling for bitrate spikes. This was very important on the ATV1.0, but I have yet to encode a file that dropped frames due to these spikes with the ATV2.0. Maybe if you bump the CRF value up, but it is probably comparable to the iPhone specs (both max at 10000).

Yes, atv 2 appears to handle cabac better than atv1. However to be real safe, I would suggest some sort of vbv buffering to be sure. More info on this can be had here : http://forum.handbrake.fr/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2515
As well, lets try not to derail a thread about AppleTV 5.1 audio too far off track. Seems to me this cabac issue and crf would make a good new topic. (hint, hint)

Hint taken! OK, now that we have the audio stuff pretty well covered (IMO), let's talk video settings...
Granted everyone's needs are a little different. Personally, I am looking for the best quality available from DVD to @TV for my home theatre, streaming from my Mac Pro... given a reasonable file size. Encode time is not a bid deal, since I usually just let it run overnight or while I am at work (you know... the place that I waste my time on these forums ).
So, am I understanding it right that CFR will "watch" for sections that need a higher quality, but keep the bitrate down in other scenes that don't need it? Also interested in any of the advanced options that increase quality, even if encode time is longer. Thanks!

[nightstrm]

You could set the vbv-maxsize and vbv-bufsize (I think those are the names, I'm at work so I can't verify). This would basically set a ceiling for bitrate spikes. This was very important on the ATV1.0, but I have yet to encode a file that dropped frames due to these spikes with the ATV2.0. Maybe if you bump the CRF value up, but it is probably comparable to the iPhone specs (both max at 10000).

Yes, atv 2 appears to handle cabac better than atv1. However to be real safe, I would suggest some sort of vbv buffering to be sure. More info on this can be had here : http://forum.handbrake.fr/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2515
As well, lets try not to derail a thread about AppleTV 5.1 audio too far off track. Seems to me this cabac issue and crf would make a good new topic. (hint, hint)

Hint taken! OK, now that we have the audio stuff pretty well covered (IMO), let's talk video settings...
Granted everyone's needs are a little different. Personally, I am looking for the best quality available from DVD to @TV for my home theatre, streaming from my Mac Pro... given a reasonable file size. Encode time is not a bid deal, since I usually just let it run overnight or while I am at work (you know... the place that I waste my time on these forums ).
So, am I understanding it right that CFR will "watch" for sections that need a higher quality, but keep the bitrate down in other scenes that don't need it? Also interested in any of the advanced options that increase quality, even if encode time is longer. Thanks!

Basically this is correct. You lose all ability to predict final output file size though.

[dynaflash]

Well, for my part here is where I am currently at with my advanced opt string using crf at 68% in the macgui :

Code: Select all

bframes=6:ref=3:subq=5:me=umh:mixed-refs=1:no-fast-pskip=1:trellis=1:vbv-maxrate=4900:vbv-bufsize=3000

Though as soon as I have time, I want to do some more testing to possibly bump the vbv buffering up some, or maybe even try removing it altogether with a couple of known sources that caused bitrate induced frame drops with atv1.

Note: jbrjake has a nice section in the user guide to get you up to speed on crf encoding. Personally its all I use for the atv. http://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/CRFGuide

[plumbum27]

You could set the vbv-maxsize and vbv-bufsize (I think those are the names, I'm at work so I can't verify). This would basically set a ceiling for bitrate spikes. This was very important on the ATV1.0, but I have yet to encode a file that dropped frames due to these spikes with the ATV2.0. Maybe if you bump the CRF value up, but it is probably comparable to the iPhone specs (both max at 10000).

Yes, atv 2 appears to handle cabac better than atv1. However to be real safe, I would suggest some sort of vbv buffering to be sure. More info on this can be had here : http://forum.handbrake.fr/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2515
As well, lets try not to derail a thread about AppleTV 5.1 audio too far off track. Seems to me this cabac issue and crf would make a good new topic. (hint, hint)

Hint taken! OK, now that we have the audio stuff pretty well covered (IMO), let's talk video settings...
Granted everyone's needs are a little different. Personally, I am looking for the best quality available from DVD to @TV for my home theatre, streaming from my Mac Pro... given a reasonable file size. Encode time is not a bid deal, since I usually just let it run overnight or while I am at work (you know... the place that I waste my time on these forums ).
So, am I understanding it right that CFR will "watch" for sections that need a higher quality, but keep the bitrate down in other scenes that don't need it? Also interested in any of the advanced options that increase quality, even if encode time is longer. Thanks!

Basically this is correct. You lose all ability to predict final output file size though.

Is ATV2.0 still limited to 4.0GB files?

[dynaflash]

Not as long as its a 64 bit mp4 file.

This post tells about that for the HandBrake MacGui:

http://forum.handbrake.fr/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4868

[plumbum27]

Not as long as its a 64 bit mp4 file.

This post tells about that for the HandBrake MacGui:

http://forum.handbrake.fr/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4868

Ahh, thanks dynaflash.
In your opt string you have ref=3, have you had and problems with this? I have read a few post saying not to go over 2 because of itunes/atv choking issues. Have you tried 4?

[misajay]

Well, for my part here is where I am currently at with my advanced opt string using crf at 68% in the macgui :

Code: Select all

bframes=6:ref=3:subq=5:me=umh:mixed-refs=1:no-fast-pskip=1:trellis=1:vbv-maxrate=4900:vbv-bufsize=3000

Though as soon as I have time, I want to do some more testing to possibly bump the vbv buffering up some, or maybe even try removing it altogether with a couple of known sources that caused bitrate induced frame drops with atv1.

Note: jbrjake has a nice section in the user guide to get you up to speed on crf encoding. Personally its all I use for the atv. http://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/CRFGuide

I read this user guide and I found it very informative. I was looking at the advanced settings Dynaflash is using and it seemed to make sense to me - my question is do these settings break compatibility with ipod or iphone? I didn't see anything that would, but I just wanted to make sure... Thanks!

[Cavalicious]

being that you have little control of your bitrate...it could. You would just need to be careful and cap properly.

[nightstrm]

Well, for my part here is where I am currently at with my advanced opt string using crf at 68% in the macgui :

Code: Select all

bframes=6:ref=3:subq=5:me=umh:mixed-refs=1:no-fast-pskip=1:trellis=1:vbv-maxrate=4900:vbv-bufsize=3000

Though as soon as I have time, I want to do some more testing to possibly bump the vbv buffering up some, or maybe even try removing it altogether with a couple of known sources that caused bitrate induced frame drops with atv1.

Note: jbrjake has a nice section in the user guide to get you up to speed on crf encoding. Personally its all I use for the atv. http://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/CRFGuide

I read this user guide and I found it very informative. I was looking at the advanced settings Dynaflash is using and it seemed to make sense to me - my question is do these settings break compatibility with ipod or iphone? I didn't see anything that would, but I just wanted to make sure... Thanks!

This option string would not be compatible with iPhone/iPod Touch; it uses b-frames. These devices also have high vbv limits, but they are not unlimited (I believe rhester's research found them to be 10000).

[plumbum27]

Check this thread out for ATV1.1 http://forum.handbrake.fr/viewtopic.php ... &sk=t&sd=a Great thread
Wondering what ATV2.0 can handle....hmmmmm

[dynaflash]

Trust me, I am sure we'll find out through alot of testing in the next few days

< is thinking of upping bframes to somewhere in the 8 or 9 category, just for kicks >

[plumbum27]

Trust me, I am sure we'll find out through alot of testing in the next few days

< is thinking of upping bframes to somewhere in the 8 or 9 category, just for kicks >

Gulp......8 or 9! Hehe

[misajay]

Trust me, I am sure we'll find out through alot of testing in the next few days

< is thinking of upping bframes to somewhere in the 8 or 9 category, just for kicks >

LOL - I actually recently stumbled onto HandBrake about a month ago and I've been addicted ever since. With these advanced settings I'm starting to discover it's going to be difficult to get me away from my comp

[dynaflash]

LOL - I actually recently stumbled onto HandBrake about a month ago and I've been addicted ever since. With these advanced settings I'm starting to discover it's going to be difficult to get me away from my comp

Thats not funny. We have a self help group that meets the 2nd tuesday of the month for those that have HB addiction. I think details are somewhere in the Tiki Bar.

[Cavalicious]

Hello, I'm Cavalicious...and I'm a HandBraker. I've been clean 18 hours now...

[Abulia]

Hello, I'm Cavalicious...and I'm a HandBraker. I've been clean 18 hours now...

I'm Abulia and I've been a HandBrake user and lurker on these forums for about a year. And I'm not clean at all!

Seemed as good as place as any to uncloak and pronounce my appreciation to the HB team. I've been following the progress of HB daily since ATV2 was announced and am quite impressed. In this past month I've been reading, reading, and reading all about HB and its settings. It's a lot to digest.

And, in some ways, I feel like I know many of you!

Anyway, major props to all involved. I look forward to sharing some of my results when I feel comfortable doing so (read: not sound like an idiot).

[misajay]

My point was that if CABAC is off, then having Trellis on does nothing. You need CABAC for Trellis, right?

Correct. When using CAVLC instead of CABAC, x264 automatically disables trellis, since they don't have a CAVLC version of trellis, and it has to be tuned to the type of entropy coding used.

If this has been confirmed, I'm just wondering why the iphone/touch preset has cabac=0 and trellis=1 ??? Is this just an accidental oversight/no need to bother changing or is this intentional?

[rhester]

Already asked, it was an oversight, no need to change it.

Rodney

[dynaflash]

Just a note, our favorite "frame dropper" A Night at the Museum just played without a hitch with this opt string at 68% crf:

Code: Select all

bframes=6:ref=3:subq=5:me=umh:mixed-refs=1:no-fast-pskip=1:trellis=1:vbv-maxrate=4900:vbv-bufsize=3000

Was smooth like buttermilk.

[Abulia]

The past few days I've been trying a number of settings, versions of Cav's settings, dynaflash's, etc. It feels kinda silly blowing them up to 2x size and comparing the pores on an actor's face for which is better. And, ultimately, they're all *really* close. A few things that I've learned via my trial by fire:

CABAC does lower file size by about 15% but increases rendering time by about 50%.
Going from CRF 65% to 70% shows very minor improvement in detail; you've got to really be looking to spot the differences.
B-frames seems to help with detail slightly but I'm not sure at the expense of.

Using CABAC/B-frames breaks iPod/iPhone compatibility for minimal gains. If you want "take anywhere" rips you might struggle with this decision like I am.

Bit rate, indeed, is not the end-all, be-all. A 2000 kbps/s encode at 68% quality can (and does) look as good as a 3000 kbps/s encode at 70%. As computer users we've been programmed that "more is always better" but with video rips, that isn't always the case.

This is all a very long-winded way of my saying I've no idea what I'm going to rip my movies at. At this point I'm just getting decision paralysis; at some point you've got to stop testing and just start ripping.

[Cavalicious]

Welcome to the club

[lardawge]

Just a note, our favorite "frame dropper" A Night at the Museum just played without a hitch with this opt string at 68% crf:

Code: Select all

bframes=6:ref=3:subq=5:me=umh:mixed-refs=1:no-fast-pskip=1:trellis=1:vbv-maxrate=4900:vbv-bufsize=3000

Was smooth like buttermilk.

Would love to test my settings... is there a particular chapter I can use?

Thank!

[dynaflash]

Well that title is nice cause on the atv 1 it would stutter in the opening sequences which are pretty complex. For a quick test do say the first three chapters or so.

A real empiricle test would be the whole thing. But that one likes to spike bitrates right at the beginning.

[Abulia]

Trust me, I am sure we'll find out through alot of testing in the next few days

< is thinking of upping bframes to somewhere in the 8 or 9 category, just for kicks >

I turned up ref to 6 and had no problems on the ATV or my iPhone.

At 68 quality I couldn't see any quality difference using bframes and decided to simply provide for iPhone compatability, should I ever desire to take a movie with me on a flight.

My current quandry is strict versus loose in regards to anamorphic. Loose sounds more future-proof and combatible but I bristle at the idea of cutting out visual image just to make the screen divisible by 16. In practice I can't tell any viewing difference so it could be a moot decision. Anyone have some guidance in this area?

For kicks, using:

Code: Select all

ref=6:subq=6:me=umh:no-fast-pskip=1:vbv-maxrate=4900:vbv-bufsize=3000
:mixed-refs=1:cabac=0:merange=32:analyse=all:level=30

[dynaflash]

tbh, as far as the atv goes anyway, if your using caba=0 you can likely dump the vbv buffering altogether, it you want.