Optimun settings for viewing on an Apple TV?

Discuss encoding for devices and presets.
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studio1972
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Thanks Rodney

Post by studio1972 »

I think you must mean the link for "Subversion Repository. I followed that and it's way beyond me to work out what to do with all those files so I guess I'd better just wait for the next release. Thanks anyway.

Stu

jbrjake
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Post by jbrjake »

Or you could try following the guide I made to compiling HandBrake in OS X. It's linked to from the front page of the Trac now...

studio1972
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Anamorphic on Apple TV

Post by studio1972 »

Thanks again jbrjake. I checked out your instructions but they do seem to require a basic level of understanding which is currently beyond me. I have tried the alternative of opening the anamorphic file from 0.8.0b1 and changing the aspect ratio in QT. This doesn't seem to work. QT will only save the adjusted file as a .mov which is incompatible with ATV and changing the extension to .m4v doesn't work. The only way seems to be to export the file with the correct format which means waiting for QT to re-encode it. Probably better to wait for the next release of HB I guess.

Edit: I have tried using pass through on video and audio but the ATV doesn't like the resulting file, even though iTunes plays it ok..

scottyr
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Re: Trying to answer the original question on this thread

Post by scottyr »

jbrjake wrote:
Framerate - same as source. Is this the best setting or should I set it to a particular framerate?
Specify the framerate for video content, but you can leave it as "same as source" for film. If you're not sure which is which, just specify it for everything.
Wow - great instructions... Just one thing:
Can you expand on the above by defining film vs. video and making framerate suggestions for both.

Lastly, when should we expect the update to MF/HB that is optimized for Apple TV?

jbrjake
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Re: Trying to answer the original question on this thread

Post by jbrjake »

scottyr wrote:Wow - great instructions... Just one thing: Can you expand on the above by defining film vs. video and making framerate suggestions for both.
...
Defining film vs video? Really? One is a reel. Another is a cassette. One records photons hitting light-sensitive chemicals on a piece of celluoid. The other records bits as magnetic charges on a piece of tape. Actually explaining the details of editing and telecining is not something I want to get into in a thread about optimum apple tv settings, and is eminently googleable.

film: 23.976 or 24
video: 29.976 or 30
Lastly, when should we expect the update to MF/HB that is optimized for Apple TV?
When it's ready? This question has been asked and answered many times.

scottyr
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Re: Trying to answer the original question on this thread

Post by scottyr »

jbrjake wrote:Defining film vs video? Really? One is a reel. Another is a cassette. One records photons hitting light-sensitive chemicals on a piece of celluoid. The other records bits as magnetic charges on a piece of tape. Actually explaining the details of editing and telecining is not something I want to get into in a thread about optimum apple tv settings, and is eminently googleable.

film: 23.976 or 24
video: 29.976 or 30
Thanks Cliff.
Given your answer I'll assume TV shows = Video and Movies = film.

I hope you can understand new user's frustrations when a sticky post such as this one has more posts about sound than the stated topic.

nightstrm
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Re: Trying to answer the original question on this thread

Post by nightstrm »

scottyr wrote:
jbrjake wrote:Defining film vs video? Really? One is a reel. Another is a cassette. One records photons hitting light-sensitive chemicals on a piece of celluoid. The other records bits as magnetic charges on a piece of tape. Actually explaining the details of editing and telecining is not something I want to get into in a thread about optimum apple tv settings, and is eminently googleable.

film: 23.976 or 24
video: 29.976 or 30
Thanks Cliff.
Given your answer I'll assume TV shows = Video and Movies = film.

I hope you can understand new user's frustrations when a sticky post such as this one has more posts about sound than the stated topic.
Not necessarily... a lot of the newer shows are shot on film as well.

deckeda
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Post by deckeda »

Once it gets in our hands, it's all video regardless of original creation.

But I take it original creation is important, and apparently the frame rate stays the same all the way to the DVD disk.

I guess that means a DVD player adjusts the framerate for the comfort of the TV but that AppleTV or software players can't. Fishing for clues here, gang. Toss me a bone.

jbrjake
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Post by jbrjake »

deckeda wrote:Fishing for clues here, gang. Toss me a bone.
As I said before:

Telecining is not something I want to get into in a thread about optimum apple tv settings, and is eminently googleable.

studio1972
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Re: Trying to answer the original question on this thread

Post by studio1972 »

I have been trying out some settings so I thought I would add some more to this thread incase anyone finds it helpful.
jbrjake wrote:
studio1972 wrote:Firstly, my setup is simple an ATV connected to my HDTV (37" plasma which supports 1080i and 720p but not 1080p).
...which means it's 720p, so use that setting, not 1080i. "Supporting" 1080i without 1080p on a plasma or LCD means it just accepts that content and scales it down to 720p.
You are dead on here, my TV has resolution 720 * 1024 so everything is scaled down to this anyway.
My assumption is that H.264 gives a better quality picture for a given bitrate?
Your assumption is correct.
Framerate - same as source. Is this the best setting or should I set it to a particular framerate?
Specify the framerate for video content, but you can leave it as "same as source" for film. If you're not sure which is which, just specify it for everything.
I have noticed that some DVDs (an exercise video and a kids TV programme) show horizontal lines around moving objects which I think is due to an interlacing problem. If I select the de-interlace checkbox this problem is sorted out. I have left everything as 'same as source' for framerate and I have not noticed any problems. Maybe this is because I am in a PAL area and it is different if you have 30Hz as in the US. My assumption is that a PAL DVD is already at 25Hz and should be left as such but I could well be wrong.
I assume that if you use the iPod encoder the resulting file would be iPod compatible, but that the quality would be a bit low for use on the ATV?
Correct again.
2-pass encoding on. Turn it off is encoding time is a big issue. Question, is the benefit from this realy worth it?
If you're going to use average bitrate mode, yes, 2-pass is generally worth it. You will get increased quality on the 2nd pass. However, to save time, I usually use a high constant quality setting and check the CRF box in the preferences. Faster and almost the same quality as 2-pass abr. You just can't predict how big the file will be.
Average bitrate 1200k. I tried this and it seemed ok. If someone could give me some guidence on what level this should be to give a quality picture without wasting space please do. Would I be better using the quality slider, what do the % figures mean on this, would 50% be ok for a big movie, or would it only be ok for something where picture quality wasn't that important?
1200 is a little low imo. I wouldn't go below 1500 on most stuff.
You were right on this one as well. I can tell the difference between 1200 and 1500 but there doesn't seem to be much difference between 1500 and 2500 (maybe my eyesight is crap). I am now using 1500 for movies and 1200 for kids movies and TV shows. Note: I am ripping PAL DVDs, if you're ripping US DVDs then I guess maybe a lower bitrate might be acceptable due to the lower resolution of the source. Many movies are in 2.35:1 in which case there are fewer pixels, however these are generally the movies which you want at best quality (LOTR, Gladiator etc.) so I still use 1500.

For the quality slider, 50% is *reallly* low...it'll look pretty bad. I usually start at 70-75% and work my way down until the picture becomes noticeably worse.
I read a piece on here saying not to use anamorphic for ATV.
That was due to mistaken reports from one of our first testers with an AppleTV, who thought anamorphic didn't work on the device. But it does, and it does well. If you don't want to go through the hassle of manually editing the files in QuickTime Pro (and I can do nothing but laugh at the people who do go through that), just wait for the next beta or compile yourself from the source. Current HB source code is fully capable of creating anamorphic video that plays on the AppleTV with no futzing in QT Pro.
I've started using this Quicktime workaround and it is actually quite quick, just a few seconds per file. It is slightly disturbing for me to know that you are probably now laughing at me, but I guess this is probably the best option for anyone who doesn't want to build the software from source.
I think the limit for ATV is 160k but 128k seems to be ok to me. I guess that the audio is converted into stereo. If the source is 5.1 then the stereo tracks include Pro Logic 1 I think (please correct me if I'm wrong). This is ok for me as my setup doesn't have surround sound. In any case my understanding is that the ATV will not output a 5.1 signal whatever you put into it.
You can set the audio bitrate even higher than 160, Apple's specs must be talking about the bitrate on content from iTunes store. If you're using HB/MF 0.8.0b1 then your audio is being converted into stereo. The next beta will convert it to Pro Logic 1. And you're right, the ATV will not output a 5.1 signal. :(

Desdichado
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Smaller picture when viewed through Apple TV

Post by Desdichado »

I am sorry if I have missed a discussion on this (I did look for it), but I have noticed that a some DVDs I have tried to burn ("The Game" being the most recent) play in a reduced size through Apple TV. That is to say the picture does not fill my plasma and has black bars on all sides. This does not seem to happen with all movies, Batman Begins and Caddyshack work fine and fill the screen. I am using the ATV preset setting on HB and am running it on PC (the basic details on my system are below). Oh and my Apple TV is set to 1080.

Any thoughts on why this is happening and how I fix it?

Thanks!

tgavin
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Re: Smaller picture when viewed through Apple TV

Post by tgavin »

Desdichado wrote:I am sorry if I have missed a discussion on this (I did look for it), but I have noticed that a some DVDs I have tried to burn ("The Game" being the most recent) play in a reduced size through Apple TV. That is to say the picture does not fill my plasma and has black bars on all sides. This does not seem to happen with all movies, Batman Begins and Caddyshack work fine and fill the screen. I am using the ATV preset setting on HB and am running it on PC (the basic details on my system are below). Oh and my Apple TV is set to 1080.

Any thoughts on why this is happening and how I fix it?

Thanks!
It's my guess that the movies are not optimized for dvd playback. Meaning that they were burned at a 640x480 letterbox, like what was on VHS.

ispy
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Re: Smaller picture when viewed through Apple TV

Post by ispy »

Desdichado wrote:I am sorry if I have missed a discussion on this (I did look for it), but I have noticed that a some DVDs I have tried to burn ("The Game" being the most recent) play in a reduced size through Apple TV. That is to say the picture does not fill my plasma and has black bars on all sides. This does not seem to happen with all movies, Batman Begins and Caddyshack work fine and fill the screen. I am using the ATV preset setting on HB and am running it on PC (the basic details on my system are below). Oh and my Apple TV is set to 1080.

Any thoughts on why this is happening and how I fix it?

Thanks!
I have the same problem - HELP PLEASE !!! WHAT AM I DOING WRONG...

dynaflash
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Post by dynaflash »

Try setting the AppleTV to 720P instead of 1080i. See if that helps it fill in the screen.

Cavalicious
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Post by Cavalicious »

correct me if I'm wrong...

Assuming that you are displaying on a Widescreen 16:9 TV (1.78:1):

A Anamorphic 1.85:1 Movie should look like this...

Image

A Anamorphic 2.35:1 Movie should look like this...

Image

Now, I will verify this weekend, but I believe (when using the -p option), HB/AppleTV is still showing black bars on some of my 1.85:1 encodes. Hmmm...

jbrjake
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Post by jbrjake »

Cavalicious wrote:Now, I will verify this weekend, but I believe (when using the -p option), HB/AppleTV is still showing black bars on some of my 1.85:1 encodes. Hmmm...
Well, it should still have thin black bars on 1.85:1...the only one that doesn't is 1.78:1. Maybe you just aren't noticing them in that screenshot because it's downsized? Here's 1.85:1 at full rez:Image

Cavalicious
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Post by Cavalicious »

I'll verify, but I think I'm getting more of the thicker 2.35:1 bars. Either way, I learned to live with it.

Cavalicious
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Post by Cavalicious »

jbrjake,

Ok, this is the deal...

Code: Select all

/HandBrakeCLI -i /Volumes/Encode/TSO0NNW1/  -o /Volumes/New\ Download/Tsotsi.m4v  -T -d  -m -p  -2 -e x264 -b 3000  -r 23.976  -E facc  -B 160 -R 44.1 -s 1 -6 6ch -v -x bframes=3:ref=3:subq=5:me=umh:no-fast-pskip=1:trellis=2:cabac=0
Latest Encode was Tsotsi which is in Widescreen 1.85:1 format (Note: Not Widescreen Anamorphic 1.85:1).

I play the DVD in a DVD Player and I get 2.35:1 size bars.
Play Encode through AppleTV and I get 2.35:1 size bars.

I then take a Widescreen Anamorphic 1.85:1 formated source and run it through HB with the same settings and get an Encode that fills the screen.

So, with this test, it looks as if "-p" isn't working for me; as my outcome is dependent on the sources format not the "-p" option.

-Is this a correct assumption?

jbrjake
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Post by jbrjake »

You should never use -p with a non-anamorphic widescreen DVD. The widescreen image is hard-letterboxed for standard def 4:3 display ( http://handbrake.m0k.org/trac/wiki/AnamorphicGuide#hard ) which means the bars are thicker than they are for something intended for anamorphic display on a widescreen set.

Cavalicious
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Post by Cavalicious »

jbrjake wrote:You should never use -p with a non-anamorphic widescreen DVD. The widescreen image is hard-letterboxed for standard def 4:3 display ( http://handbrake.m0k.org/trac/wiki/AnamorphicGuide#hard ) which means the bars are thicker than they are for something intended for anamorphic display on a widescreen set.
I understand what your saying, but I would expect Hard Letter-box images to have either grey bars on the sides or 'centered' like the image in the link. None of these do. At this point I'm just fine either way, but this is a nice Q & A for others.

jbrjake
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Post by jbrjake »

Cavalicious wrote:I understand what your saying, but I would expect Hard Letter-box images to have either grey bars on the sides or 'centered' like the image in the link.
Well, I was assuming your display was stretching it horizontally. Like, if I'm watching a 4:3 channel on my 16x9 tv, I get that "centered" style like the image in the link (aka "postage-stamped") but if put the TV in stretch mode, the ones on the side disappear, and I'm just left with an overly-narrowed image (which is to say, there are thicker black bars on the top and bottom than their should be).

However, we all know what happens when someone assumes....

I checked iMDB and there is a far more rational explanation for why Tsotsi has 2.35:1 sized bars. What would that explanation be?

Tsotsi is a 2.35:1 film;P

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0468565/technical

Cavalicious
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Post by Cavalicious »

I checked iMDB and there is a far more rational explanation for why Tsotsi has 2.35:1 sized bars. What would that explanation be?

Tsotsi is a 2.35:1 film;P

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0468565/technical
Hmmm...make sense, mine just says Widescreen, I looked it up here:

http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Tsotsi/700 ... 848380_0_0

and "assumed" it was correct when it said Widescreen 1.85:1. I'll start using IMDB from now on. Thanks.

athos
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First encoding with the defaults

Post by athos »

I took the first disc of extras season 2, and put it through the paces today. I selected the "Apple TV" default, changed nothing else, and ripped away. On my MBP (new santa rosa one...17") it took quite a while, which is fine, but the quality when I viewed it on my plasma was not great. So obviously, I need to tweak it from the original settings.

I just read through this thread but didn't see a lot of advice around this. Hoping someone can walk me through it.

Thanks for the good work, people -- I used this product a ton last year.

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