Getting Good Results Ripping 4K

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stevetheripper
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Getting Good Results Ripping 4K

Post by stevetheripper » Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:26 pm

I'm an old pro at Handbrake, but have run into an issue trying to transcode my first UHD.

Using *any* settings which Apple TV can handle, daylight scenes in the movie are washed out, unwatchable. I can get great-looking results using the main10-intra profile, but Apple TV can't play files encoded with that profile.

I've tried stupidly low CF rates (16 on a UHD!), I've thrown big bitrates (up to 40k) at it, but still the daylight scenes are washed out.

Is there something I'm missing? Or should I just stick with decrypted-not-transcoded MKV files and view it through Plex or something?

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Rodeo
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Re: Getting Good Results Ripping 4K

Post by Rodeo » Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:31 pm

It's not technically about 4K. HandBrake is not able to handle HDR sources at this time, you need to find other applications to transcode that.

stevetheripper
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Re: Getting Good Results Ripping 4K

Post by stevetheripper » Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:01 pm

Thanks, Rodeo. I love Handbrake, and have for years -- but if it's not the right tool for this job, I'll have to try something else.

Do you have any recommendations for Mac users?

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Rodeo
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Re: Getting Good Results Ripping 4K

Post by Rodeo » Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:10 pm

No idea TBH.

mduell
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Re: Getting Good Results Ripping 4K

Post by mduell » Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:34 pm

Lack of HDR flagging doesn't necessarily make it unwatchable, could be misflagged or something. Thus the bold underlined red text in the pink box.

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Rodeo
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Re: Getting Good Results Ripping 4K

Post by Rodeo » Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:25 pm

I did assume the most likely explanation, which a log could indeed either confirm or not.
mduell wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:34 pm
Lack of HDR flagging doesn't necessarily make it unwatchable, could be misflagged or something.
HDR is more than just a flag or even a color matrix though, else it would have been trivial to support in HandBrake ages ago. There is specific metadata we're not yet capable of passing through, and if I understand it correctly, it's not a constant either, it varies throughout the input bitstream…

archer75
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Re: Getting Good Results Ripping 4K

Post by archer75 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:18 pm

stevetheripper wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:26 pm
I'm an old pro at Handbrake, but have run into an issue trying to transcode my first UHD.

Using *any* settings which Apple TV can handle, daylight scenes in the movie are washed out, unwatchable. I can get great-looking results using the main10-intra profile, but Apple TV can't play files encoded with that profile.

I've tried stupidly low CF rates (16 on a UHD!), I've thrown big bitrates (up to 40k) at it, but still the daylight scenes are washed out.

Is there something I'm missing? Or should I just stick with decrypted-not-transcoded MKV files and view it through Plex or something?
What software are you using for playback?

archer75
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Re: Getting Good Results Ripping 4K

Post by archer75 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:06 pm

My UHD rips that I reencode in handbrake do have HDR when I play them back on the ATV4k(just not dolby vision). I primarily use Infuse for playback which is the best player IMO but it also works in plex. Tested again last night just to make sure.

Typically when you watch a movie with HDR and it looks washed out it's because the player you're using doesn't support HDR.

I don't use the main-10-intra profile as I find it makes the files unnecessarily large and the quality is worse than when not using it. I do use main10 though. I can provide my settings if you wish.
Though while I was testing I did have some movies using main-10-intra and they played back fine on the ATV4k.

mduell
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Re: Getting Good Results Ripping 4K

Post by mduell » Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:17 pm

archer75 wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:06 pm
I don't use the main-10-intra profile as I find it makes the files unnecessarily large and the quality is worse than when not using it. I do use main10 though. I can provide my settings if you wish.
Though while I was testing I did have some movies using main-10-intra and they played back fine on the ATV4k.
Duh, there's no interframe compression.

I don't understand the rash of posts lately about using main 10 intra without any understanding or reason for doing so.

majstrzvasi
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Re: Getting Good Results Ripping 4K

Post by majstrzvasi » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:53 pm

Are you riping uhd movies or uhd hdr movies? You did not mention how you decrypted the file and into what? Did you just remux a bluray or what?

I dont know much but i find on yotube latest apple tv can play 4k hdr movies so on mac you have something like MKVtoolnix to extract it from original bluray and handbrake to compress the movie.

Now if apple tv can play Bluray 4k hdr it means it can play Main 10@L5.1@High SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible. This can be easy to compress in handbrake. Just put the large movie file in handbrake then auto crop if nesesary. Dont use any filters use the H265 10bit codec i use crf 20 for 2160p resolution then use the preset you want i use medium because on slow it takes too long time in my case. Then set the framerate constant as source and leave the encoder tune none and profile on auto or 5.1. It should work just fine.

Now if you realy want some extra hdr parameters tipe in handbrake advanced options this line above.

master-display=G(13250,34500)B(7500,3000)R(34000,16000)WP(15635,16450)L(10000000,20) :max-cll= 717 ,578

Line above will give you this parameters so for diferent content use diferent numbers you can check the parameters of the original video with mediainfo app then you must change only this nombers L(10000000,20) :max-cll= 717 ,578
Mastering display luminance : min: 0.0020 cd/m2, max: 1000 cd/m2
Maximum Content Light Level : 717 cd/m2
Maximum Frame-Average Light : 578 cd/m2

Example L(40000000,50) :max-cll= 1200 ,800 will give this results
Mastering display luminance : min: 0.0050 cd/m2, max: 4000 cd/m2
Maximum Content Light Level : 1200cd/m2
Maximum Frame-Average Light : 800 cd/m2

For diferent source you get diferent size
example with crf 20 and medium preset audio aac 5.1 448kbs
i get guardians.Of.The.Galaxy.Vol.2
File size : 5.90 GiB
Duration : 2 h 15 min
Overall bit rate : 6 220 kb/s
And from couch i cant tell the diference from the original bluray
For some other movie source with more grain file could be 15gb but the quality is the same.
I hope this helps for riping 4k hdr content.

majstrzvasi
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Re: Getting Good Results Ripping 4K

Post by majstrzvasi » Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:58 am

Another thing that is actualy very funny most films including the latest marvel movies are upscaled from 2048×1080 resolution to 4k. It is slightly better than normal 1080p but not a big diference. So the main point of 4k movies is HDR. If you rip the non hdr movies it is not worth the trouble.

I am saying this because beter colors always wins againts more sharp image. When people rip 4k movie they use high bitrates or low crf values so the picture will look the best and they use 7.1 dts master sounds wich take up a lot of space but most people dont even have the equipment to properly play normal 5.1 sound. At the end it comes down to that how much space are you willing to give for your movie colection. My 4k hdr rips are tipicaly below 10gb and they look amazing. If i go close to the screen and compare original vs rip side by side there is a diference in quality but in real world scenario it looks the same.

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Rodeo
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Re: Getting Good Results Ripping 4K

Post by Rodeo » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:19 am

HandBrake cannot handle HDR content. It cannot pass the HDR metadata through, so the results will have incorrect, probably "washed-out" colors.

majstrzvasi
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Re: Getting Good Results Ripping 4K

Post by majstrzvasi » Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:05 pm

Rodeo wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:19 am
HandBrake cannot handle HDR content. It cannot pass the HDR metadata through, so the results will have incorrect, probably "washed-out" colors.
I rip all 4k hdr movies in handbrake and colors are fine. I tried on tv playing from usb or network share it works properly in tried on my htpc in windows it works properly with vlc player. I tried other players in windows and colors are washed out. So i think it has something to do with the players if colors are washed out not the rip itself.

Here is the mediainfo from my latest hdr rip with handbrake 1.3.0
Video
ID : 1
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile : Main 10@L5.1@High
HDR format : SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible
Codec ID : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 10 bits
Writing library : x265 3.2.1+1-b5c86a64bbbe:[Windows][GCC 8.3.0][64 bit] 10bit
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics : PQ
Matrix coefficients : BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color pri : Display P3
Mastering display luminance : min: 0.0050 cd/m2, max: 4000 cd/m2
Maximum Content Light Level : 2465 cd/m2
Maximum Frame-Average Light : 823 cd/m2

majstrzvasi
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Re: Getting Good Results Ripping 4K

Post by majstrzvasi » Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:25 pm

Direct screenshot from my HDTV playing my rip of avengers with vlc proper colors playing with mediaplayer washed out.
I think hdr is in there just player must passtrough it to the tv i dont realy know much about players I just know hdr rips in handbrake works properly.
http://shrani.si/f/C/QK/2E1urNtl/rip.jpg

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