Any advantage to HEVC for Blu-ray?

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John the Ripper
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Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:10 pm

Any advantage to HEVC for Blu-ray?

Post by John the Ripper »

Hi, I understand HEVC is the optimum encoding for 4K sources, but is there any advantage to using it for 1080p Blu-ray? Or is H.264 sufficient?
mduell
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Re: Any advantage to HEVC for Blu-ray?

Post by mduell »

I'm not sure why/how you "understand" that, but there's no resolution dependence (up to and including 4K) for the upsides and downsides of H.265 relative to H.264. H.265 is more efficient at all resolutions, while being slow to encode and lacking broad support, compared to H.264.
John the Ripper
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Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:10 pm

Re: Any advantage to HEVC for Blu-ray?

Post by John the Ripper »

Ah right, gotcha. If efficiency is the only difference I guess it's down to how much space vs. time I'm willing to sacrifice.

Support isn't an issue as I'm an Apple guy and the various OS's (and iTunes/Apple TV) are about to support it.

Thanks for the advice!
Deleted User 11865

Re: Any advantage to HEVC for Blu-ray?

Post by Deleted User 11865 »

Actually, when it comes to metrics, some tests show that the larger block sizes allowed by HEVC don't make as much of a difference at lower resolutions; e.g. for "standard definition" content (think DVD resolution), you don't necessarily lose much efficiency when limiting HEVC to H.264 block sizes for "identical" output as measured by a given metric -- at least when considering bitrate ranges where H.264 can still produce mostly satisfactory output.

Said block sizes obviously aren't HEVC's only edge over older codecs, but the idea that HEVC's efficiency advantage is more significant at higher resolutions is at least partially true.

Generally speaking though, a properly configured HEVC encoder should be able to beat any H.264 encoder. Whether the increase in encoding time is worth the increased efficiency is very subjective, and we can't really answer that for you (you could probably easily compute the electricity costs of re-encoding vs. buying additional hard drive space, but sometimes the perceived cost may matter more than the actual cost, and we're back in subjective territory again).
John the Ripper
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Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:10 pm

Re: Any advantage to HEVC for Blu-ray?

Post by John the Ripper »

Thanks for that.

I think my "understanding" (i.e. "what I'd heard") about HEVC must have been mainly related to file sizes, with H.265 making 4K files more manageable than H.264.

But since I'll be relying on presets maybe I should stick with H.264 for now, with its more established (and device-optimised) settings.
nhyone
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Re: Any advantage to HEVC for Blu-ray?

Post by nhyone »

Rodeo wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:23 pm Said block sizes obviously aren't HEVC's only edge over older codecs, but the idea that HEVC's efficiency advantage is more significant at higher resolutions is at least partially true.
x265 is too aggressive in using big block sizes and it is common to see people limit CTU to 32 for 1080p videos. For 480p, I use CTU 16. Big block size save space, but they also lose details.

I'll say the problems with HEVC are, (i) it is so slow that people often trade quality for speed, (ii) use lower quality settings (than H.264 equivalent) to get the acclaimed 50% savings.
mduell
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Re: Any advantage to HEVC for Blu-ray?

Post by mduell »

Rodeo wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:23 pmSaid block sizes obviously aren't HEVC's only edge over older codecs, but the idea that HEVC's efficiency advantage is more significant at higher resolutions is at least partially true.
We're talking single digit percentages associated with block size? 1%? Less?
nhyone
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Re: Any advantage to HEVC for Blu-ray?

Post by nhyone »

mduell wrote: Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:46 am We're talking single digit percentages associated with block size? 1%? Less?
The CTU wiki page cites a difference of 18% comparing CTU 16 to 64 in one study of 1080p videos.

H.264 allows MacroBlocks of 16x16 only. I've always wondered what if someone defines a "level 6" and extend it to 64x64? Will it be even more competitive to HEVC? :D
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BradleyS
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Re: Any advantage to HEVC for Blu-ray?

Post by BradleyS »

x264 master already has level 6.
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