Apple TV 3 Puzzles

Discuss encoding for devices and presets.
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Harry_The_Bustard
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Apple TV 3 Puzzles

Post by Harry_The_Bustard » Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:33 pm

I record off DVB-T in the UK - which is MPEG-2, 704 x 576, 25 fps with a (varying) bit rate depending on the channel but usually close to 4 Mbps - using an Elgato EyeTV device.

In recent years I used HandBrake - most recently 0.10.5 - and exported the programmes I wanted to keep (naughty I know) using the "Apple TV 3" preset.

With the arrival of the 1.0 version of HandBrake (actually 1.0.2 now) I'm wondering whether the "Apple 1080p30 Surround" preset is best or, given the source, another Apple one with smaller dimensions may suffice. So, if anyone could answer that I'd be grateful.

By way of an aside I did a test export from 0.10.5 with the "Apple TV 3" preset (i.e. as all were exported of late) and the same from 1.0.2 using that preset in the "Legacy" category. To my surprise there were small but significant differences in the bit rate and so file size. I wonder why this is. N.B. I've not included the scan or encode logs as as I doubt such would be of value - rather someone probably knows the answer regardless.
Last edited by Harry_The_Bustard on Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

rollin_eng
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Re: Apple TV 3 Puzzles

Post by rollin_eng » Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:57 pm

Could you please post your logs, instructions can be found here:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=31236

Harry_The_Bustard
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Re: Apple TV 3 Puzzles

Post by Harry_The_Bustard » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:21 am

Here is a log for the version 1.0.2 "Apple 1080p30 Surround" encode of an EyeTV version 2.5.3 DVB-T (UK PAL) recording. Let me know if a log for an alternative encode is needed to answer my main question. N.B. I may - or may not - pick up the "aside" later.

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BradleyS
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Re: Apple TV 3 Puzzles

Post by BradleyS » Sun May 14, 2017 7:50 pm

The legacy AppleTV 3 preset uses slightly higher video quality, RF 20 compared to 22 in the Apple 1080p30 Surround preset. Feel free to adjust the RF value in small increments such as these after selecting your preset.

More: https://handbrake.fr/docs/en/1.0.0/work ... ality.html

Harry_The_Bustard
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Re: Apple TV 3 Puzzles

Post by Harry_The_Bustard » Sat May 12, 2018 10:56 pm

Thank you for the suggestion - almost a year ago now. I only discovered it a few months ago as I've been otherwise occupied - as has been the case until now when I've finally found time to consider it and, in fact, dig deeper with the aside.

Given the minor difference mentioned I've not bothered adopting the "Apple 1080p30 Surround" preset though I will bear it in mind.

I'm still curious as to why the "Apple TV 3" preset in the current version (i.e. 1.1.0) and my previously-used version (1.0.2) isn't the same as the one in 0.10.5. The differences as far as I can tell are...

a) AC3... 0.10.5 has the kbps set to 224 whilst 1.1.0 has it set to 160

b) Decomb... 0.10.5 has it set to "Fast" whilst 1.1.0 has it set to "Default"

...based on what's in the queue window. N.B. I can see where the first setting is controlled in each version but not the second.

I realise the chances of an explanation are slim given how 0.10.5 is history but I'd nonetheless urge whoever's responsible for the relevant section of the technical documentation for Decomb - i.e. "Summary of Filters" - to complete it (it's essentially empty) as it's been "Coming Soon!" for over a year.

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BradleyS
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Re: Apple TV 3 Puzzles

Post by BradleyS » Sun May 13, 2018 7:02 am

Indeed, there is a lot we would like to do with the documentation but limited time and resources for our small team is the main issue. I hope to devote more time to it but real life is in high gear right now.

a) Was a bug.

b) Is because Fast is lower quality (completely discards one field) while not being much faster than Default, which is better suited for the wide range of resolutions found today.

Decomb settings are available on the Filters tab. :)

Harry_The_Bustard
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Re: Apple TV 3 Puzzles

Post by Harry_The_Bustard » Sun May 13, 2018 10:19 pm

Thank you for the quick reply.

Documentation... The voluntary work which you and other contributors do (in every area) is very much appreciated. (I understand your stance of not accepting donations lest users nudge you too hard though I'd make such and would even pay for the application though hope that's not on the cards as it'll probably be the death knell.) Still, it should save some support time if it were complete.

AC3... I'd have saved quite a bit of space had I spotted that bug several terabytes ago! (I would reprocess the MP4 files via 1.1.0, were there no loss of video quality, but don't want to risk my Mac mini burning out so fingers crossed I can afford a Mac Pro or an iMac Pro one day.) If time's ever on my side (not much chance of that as I'm in the lumber business - i.e. lumbered with a wife and kid) then I'll see if I can spot any more. (Such used to be an integral part of several jobs I've had over the years.) I know of at least one in 0.10.5 and will check if that's been carried into 1.1.0 and report it via the relevant means if so.

Decomb... Not being too up on video concepts (though keen to learn) I had a look at what a field is (here) and presume you mean it discards one of the two per frame in Fast mode but not in Default mode. I'm puzzled, though, by the resultant smaller file size and lower data rate of a 1.1.0 "Apple TV 3 preset" render as compared to one via 0.10.5 one as I'd have thought higher quality via 1.1.0 would have meant a larger size at least. Maybe that's down to better compression efficiency. I presume from your guidance on quality that it was decided that the Default one is the better setting for this preset in 1.1.0. I had, by the way, spotted the settings on the Filters tab in 1.1.0 and meant the equivalent couldn't be found in 0.10.5 as a settable option - it only being shown in both the Video tab and in the Queue - it presumably being hard-coded.

Woodstock
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Re: Apple TV 3 Puzzles

Post by Woodstock » Sun May 13, 2018 11:16 pm

Space saving of lower max bit rate AAC is not that significant, vs. the video bit rate. Probably not even 1% overall.

Harry_The_Bustard
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Re: Apple TV 3 Puzzles

Post by Harry_The_Bustard » Mon May 14, 2018 6:23 am

Thank you for your suggestion.

The only tests I've done - both via 0.10.5 with one the standard preset and the other the corrected (160 kbps AC3 stream) one - showed a 2.5 MB difference on 71 MB (standard preset) which suggests it would be a little higher gain. (That would be a nice bite out of the 3 TB of stuff which I've rendered down this past few years using 0.10.5 - I still not having made the jump beyond that though plan to soon.) The 1.1.0 version of that, by the way, weighed in at 65.9 MB which illustrates my puzzlement mentioned under "Decomb" in my last post. It's not worth me posting any logs from these, presumably, as 0.10.5 is dead in the water.

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