Problem with H.264 with Neuf [french ISP] MediaPlayer

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bouscram
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Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:43 am

Problem with H.264 with Neuf [french ISP] MediaPlayer

Post by bouscram » Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:03 am

Neuf is a triple play ISP in France who has launched recently a Media Player app in its TV decoder (based on NetGem's Netbox 7600 with a custom firmware). It supports H.264 video on AVI or MP4 containers.

There is a problem with Handbrake generated MP4 with H.264 video which don't load. A file with the same settings but in an AVI container is correctly displayed.
I have made some tests and :

- an H.264 MP4 file generated with FFmpegX doesn't play
- an H.264 MP4 file generated with iMovie '08 plays correctly
- a reference H.264 MP4 file plays correctly

Anybody has an idea ?

More information in french on Neuf TV forum : http://forum.neuf.tv/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22821

Cavalicious
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Post by Cavalicious » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:57 pm

So this fairly new Media Player doesn't play HB's encodes...and somehow its HB that has the problem?

hawkman
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Post by hawkman » Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:01 pm

Bear in mind that "h.264" is no one thing - there are many technologies involved, and it's still called h.264 whether it's as simple or as complicated as possible. You'll need to find out exactly what your player supports.

bouscram
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:43 am

Post by bouscram » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:59 pm

Can you *READ* what I write before flaming me ? I wrote that I have a problem, described the problem, but I *NEVER* said it was HB's problem ! I also said that files generated with FFmpegX don't work.

In fact, if you read correctly, I also wrote that an AVI with H.264 generated by HB (with exactly the same encoding options than the MP4 - in fact the default ones) is played flawlessly. My guess is that there is something in the container itself which isn't understood by the player.

I have tried (and I know I'm not the only one) many settings with HB before posting, first on Neuf's forum, then here, but couldn't get it to work.

From what I know, the Neuf TV decoder uses a Sigma SMP8635 processor.

Reference files from http://www.elecard.ru/download/clips.php work fine

jbrjake
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Post by jbrjake » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:16 pm

Ok, lemme put this another way:

1. No one involved in the project has one of these devices.
2. No one has any way of knowing *what* about the structure of HB-generated .mp4 files trips up these devices.
3. You didn't provide us with informative mp4dumps comparing working and non-working file structures.
4. You didn't bother seeing if remuxing the file with mp4box or QuickTime made it work, and because of points 1 and 2 you're the only person who could do that legwork.
5. Considering that HB-generated .mp4 files work in any number of players both hard and soft, including ones that faithfully follow the .mp4 spec, I fail to see how this could possibly have anything to do with HandBrake. You should be complaining to Neuf. You're their customer, after all.

Cavalicious
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Re: Problem with H.264 with Neuf [french ISP] MediaPlayer

Post by Cavalicious » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:19 pm

bouscram wrote:There is a problem with Handbrake generated MP4 with H.264 video which don't load.
jbrjake wrote:Considering that HB-generated .mp4 files work in any number of players both hard and soft, including ones that faithfully follow the .mp4 spec, I fail to see how this could possibly have anything to do with HandBrake. You should be complaining to Neuf. You're their customer, after all.
-nuff said

bouscram
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:43 am

Post by bouscram » Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:27 pm

jbrjake wrote:Ok, lemme put this another way:

1. No one involved in the project has one of these devices.
2. No one has any way of knowing *what* about the structure of HB-generated .mp4 files trips up these devices.
3. You didn't provide us with informative mp4dumps comparing working and non-working file structures.
4. You didn't bother seeing if remuxing the file with mp4box or QuickTime made it work, and because of points 1 and 2 you're the only person who could do that legwork.
5. Considering that HB-generated .mp4 files work in any number of players both hard and soft, including ones that faithfully follow the .mp4 spec, I fail to see how this could possibly have anything to do with HandBrake. You should be complaining to Neuf. You're their customer, after all.
Once again, why do you have to be rude ! It seems that my simple request for some help is aggressing you... I can't understand why.
I can do whatever is needed to provide useful information, but only you know what can help you. It's the first time I come to the Handbrake forum. And I'm not sure I will come again, considering the way I have been welcomed.

Once this is said, there is a non-working file here : http://www.neufgiga.com/index.php?m=c9a ... a369e91be6

Also something to note is that non H.264 .mp4 files generated with HB work fine (I didn't say but supposed it was implicit)

I don't have mp4dump, but here is the output of mediainfo for this file :

Code: Select all

General #0
Count                : 177
Count of stream of t : 1
Kind of stream       : General
StreamKindID         : 0
Count of video strea : 1
Count of audio strea : 1
Count of text stream : 0
Count of chapter str : 0
Codecs Video         : H.264
Audio codecs         : AAC LC
Complete name        : /Volumes/Elements/Films/Higelin HB.mp4
Folder name          : /Volumes/Elements/Films
File name            : Higelin HB
File extension       : mp4
Format               : mp42
Format               : MPEG-4
Format/Info          : ISO 14496-1 version 2
Format/Family        : MPEG-4
Format/Url           : http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/standalone.html
Format/Extensions    : mp4
Codec                : mp42
Codec                : MPEG-4
Codec/Info           : ISO 14496-1 version 2
Codec/Family         : MPEG-4
Codec/Url            : http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/standalone.html
Codec/Extensions     : mp4
File size            : 66761978
File size            : 63.7 MiB
File size            : 64 MiB
File size            : 64 MiB
File size            : 63.7 MiB
File size            : 63.67 MiB
PlayTime             : 326160
PlayTime             : 5mn 26s
PlayTime             : 5mn 26s 160ms
PlayTime             : 5mn 26s
PlayTime             : 00:05:26.160
Bit rate             : 1637527
Bit rate             : 1638 Kbps
StreamSize           : 97834
StreamSize           : 95.5 KiB
StreamSize           : 96 KiB
StreamSize           : 96 KiB
StreamSize           : 95.5 KiB
StreamSize           : 95.54 KiB
Encoded date         : UTC 2007-10-20 16:50:35
Tagged date          : UTC 2007-10-20 16:55:35

Video #0
Count                : 74
Count of stream of t : 1
Kind of stream       : Video
StreamKindID         : 0
ID                   : 1
Codec                : avc1
Codec                : H.264
Codec/Info           : H.264 (3GPP)
Codec/Url            : http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/standalone.html
Codec/CC             : avc1
PlayTime             : 326160
PlayTime             : 5mn 26s
PlayTime             : 5mn 26s 160ms
PlayTime             : 5mn 26s
PlayTime             : 00:05:26.160
Bit rate             : 1507201
Bit rate             : 1507 Kbps
Width                : 708
Width                : 708 pixels
Height               : 576
Height               : 576 pixels
Aspect ratio         : 1.229
Aspect ratio         : 1.229
Frame rate           : 25.000
Frame rate           : 25.000 fps
FrameCount           : 8154
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)   : 0.145
StreamSize           : 61448625
StreamSize           : 58.6 MiB
StreamSize           : 59 MiB
StreamSize           : 59 MiB
StreamSize           : 58.6 MiB
StreamSize           : 58.60 MiB
Encoded date         : UTC 2007-10-20 16:50:35
Tagged date          : UTC 2007-10-20 16:55:35

Audio #0
Count                : 60
Count of stream of t : 1
Kind of stream       : Audio
StreamKindID         : 0
ID                   : 2
Codec                : A_AAC/MPEG4/LC
Codec                : AAC LC
Codec/Info           : AAC Low Complexity
Codec/CC             : 40
PlayTime             : 326058
PlayTime             : 5mn 26s
PlayTime             : 5mn 26s 58ms
PlayTime             : 5mn 26s
PlayTime             : 00:05:26.058
Bit rate             : 127965
Bit rate             : 128 Kbps
Bit rate mode        : VBR
Channel(s)           : 2
Channel(s)           : 2 channels
Sampling rate        : 48000
Sampling rate        : 48 KHz
SamplingCount        : 15650784
Resolution           : 16
Resolution           : 16 bits
StreamSize           : 5215519
StreamSize           : 4.97 MiB
StreamSize           : 5 MiB
StreamSize           : 5.0 MiB
StreamSize           : 4.97 MiB
StreamSize           : 4.974 MiB
Encoded date         : UTC 2007-10-20 16:50:35
Tagged date          : UTC 2007-10-20 16:55:35
And another one for a file which works :

Code: Select all

General #0
Count                : 177
Count of stream of t : 1
Kind of stream       : General
StreamKindID         : 0
Count of video strea : 1
Count of audio strea : 1
Count of text stream : 0
Count of chapter str : 0
Codecs Video         : H.264
Video_Language_List  : ehs
Audio codecs         : AAC LC
Audio_Language_List  : ehs
Complete name        : /Volumes/Elements/Films/Belukha_SD.mp4
Folder name          : /Volumes/Elements/Films
File name            : Belukha_SD
File extension       : mp4
Format               : isom
Format               : MPEG-4
Format/Info          : ISO 14496-1 Base Media
Format/Family        : MPEG-4
Format/Url           : http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/standalone.html
Format/Extensions    : mp4
Codec                : isom
Codec                : MPEG-4
Codec/Info           : ISO 14496-1 Base Media
Codec/Family         : MPEG-4
Codec/Url            : http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/standalone.html
Codec/Extensions     : mp4
File size            : 12773907
File size            : 12.2 MiB
File size            : 12 MiB
File size            : 12 MiB
File size            : 12.2 MiB
File size            : 12.18 MiB
PlayTime             : 74986
PlayTime             : 1mn 14s
PlayTime             : 1mn 14s 986ms
PlayTime             : 1mn 14s
PlayTime             : 00:01:14.986
Bit rate             : 1362804
Bit rate             : 1363 Kbps
StreamSize           : 40195
StreamSize           : 39.3 KiB
StreamSize           : 39 KiB
StreamSize           : 39 KiB
StreamSize           : 39.3 KiB
StreamSize           : 39.25 KiB

Video #0
Count                : 74
Count of stream of t : 1
Kind of stream       : Video
StreamKindID         : 0
ID                   : 1
Codec                : avc1
Codec                : H.264
Codec/Info           : H.264 (3GPP)
Codec/Url            : http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/standalone.html
Codec/CC             : avc1
PlayTime             : 74961
PlayTime             : 1mn 14s
PlayTime             : 1mn 14s 961ms
PlayTime             : 1mn 14s
PlayTime             : 00:01:14.961
Bit rate             : 1198746
Bit rate             : 1199 Kbps
Width                : 720
Width                : 720 pixels
Height               : 576
Height               : 576 pixels
Aspect ratio         : 1.250
Aspect ratio         : 5/4
Frame rate           : 25.000
Frame rate           : 25.000 fps
Standard             : PAL
FrameCount           : 1874
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)   : 0.113
StreamSize           : 11232406
StreamSize           : 10.7 MiB
StreamSize           : 11 MiB
StreamSize           : 11 MiB
StreamSize           : 10.7 MiB
StreamSize           : 10.71 MiB
Language             : ehs
Language             : ehs

Audio #0
Count                : 60
Count of stream of t : 1
Kind of stream       : Audio
StreamKindID         : 0
ID                   : 2
Codec                : A_AAC/MPEG4/LC
Codec                : AAC LC
Codec/Info           : AAC Low Complexity
Codec/CC             : 40
PlayTime             : 74983
PlayTime             : 1mn 14s
PlayTime             : 1mn 14s 983ms
PlayTime             : 1mn 14s
PlayTime             : 00:01:14.983
Bit rate             : 160175
Bit rate             : 160 Kbps
Bit rate mode        : CBR
Channel(s)           : 2
Channel(s)           : 2 channels
Sampling rate        : 48000
Sampling rate        : 48 KHz
SamplingCount        : 3599184
Resolution           : 16
Resolution           : 16 bits
StreamSize           : 1501306
StreamSize           : 1.43 MiB
StreamSize           : 1 MiB
StreamSize           : 1.4 MiB
StreamSize           : 1.43 MiB
StreamSize           : 1.432 MiB
Language             : ehs
Language             : ehs

and a last one made with iMovie which works :

Code: Select all

General #0
Count                : 177
Count of stream of t : 1
Kind of stream       : General
StreamKindID         : 0
Count of video strea : 1
Count of audio strea : 1
Count of text stream : 0
Count of chapter str : 0
Codecs Video         : H.264
Video_Language_List  : English
Audio codecs         : AAC LC
Audio_Language_List  : English
Complete name        : /Users/cram/Movies/Yi et Patrick (large).mp4
Folder name          : /Users/cram/Movies
File name            : Yi et Patrick (large)
File extension       : mp4
Format               : M4VH
Format               : Apple TV
Format/Info          : Apple TV
Format/Family        : MPEG-4
Format/Url           : http://www.apple.com/appletv/
Format/Extensions    : m4v
Codec                : M4VH
Codec                : Apple TV
Codec/Info           : Apple TV
Codec/Family         : MPEG-4
Codec/Url            : http://www.apple.com/appletv/
Codec/Extensions     : m4v
File size            : 402536900
File size            : 384 MiB
File size            : 384 MiB
File size            : 384 MiB
File size            : 384 MiB
File size            : 383.9 MiB
PlayTime             : 828560
PlayTime             : 13mn 48s
PlayTime             : 13mn 48s 560ms
PlayTime             : 13mn 48s
PlayTime             : 00:13:48.560
Bit rate             : 3886616
Bit rate             : 3887 Kbps
StreamSize           : 528724
StreamSize           : 516 KiB
StreamSize           : 516 KiB
StreamSize           : 516 KiB
StreamSize           : 516 KiB
StreamSize           : 516.3 KiB
Encoded date         : UTC 2007-08-27 22:07:59
Tagged date          : UTC 2007-08-27 22:08:29

Video #0
Count                : 74
Count of stream of t : 1
Kind of stream       : Video
StreamKindID         : 0
ID                   : 1
Codec                : avc1
Codec                : H.264
Codec/Info           : H.264 (3GPP)
Codec/Url            : http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/standalone.html
Codec/CC             : avc1
PlayTime             : 828560
PlayTime             : 13mn 48s
PlayTime             : 13mn 48s 560ms
PlayTime             : 13mn 48s
PlayTime             : 00:13:48.560
Bit rate             : 3753797
Bit rate             : 3754 Kbps
Width                : 960
Width                : 960 pixels
Height               : 540
Height               : 540 pixels
Aspect ratio         : 1.778
Aspect ratio         : 16/9
Frame rate           : 25.000
Frame rate           : 25.000 fps
FrameCount           : 20714
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)   : 0.284
StreamSize           : 388780855
StreamSize           : 371 MiB
StreamSize           : 371 MiB
StreamSize           : 371 MiB
StreamSize           : 371 MiB
StreamSize           : 370.8 MiB
Title                : Module de gestion vid?o
Language             : en
Language             : English
Encoded date         : UTC 2007-08-27 21:02:36
Tagged date          : UTC 2007-08-27 22:08:29

Audio #0
Count                : 60
Count of stream of t : 1
Kind of stream       : Audio
StreamKindID         : 0
ID                   : 2
Codec                : A_AAC/MPEG4/LC
Codec                : AAC LC
Codec/Info           : AAC Low Complexity
Codec/CC             : 40
PlayTime             : 825771
PlayTime             : 13mn 45s
PlayTime             : 13mn 45s 771ms
PlayTime             : 13mn 45s
PlayTime             : 00:13:45.771
Bit rate             : 128145
Bit rate             : 128 Kbps
Bit rate mode        : CBR
Channel(s)           : 2
Channel(s)           : 2 channels
Sampling rate        : 44100
Sampling rate        : 44 KHz
SamplingCount        : 36416501
Resolution           : 16
Resolution           : 16 bits
StreamSize           : 13227321
StreamSize           : 12.6 MiB
StreamSize           : 13 MiB
StreamSize           : 13 MiB
StreamSize           : 12.6 MiB
StreamSize           : 12.61 MiB
Title                : Module de gestion sonore
Language             : en
Language             : English
Encoded date         : UTC 2007-08-27 21:02:37
Tagged date          : UTC 2007-08-27 22:08:29

Cavalicious
Moderator
Posts: 1804
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:07 am

Post by Cavalicious » Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:40 pm

bouscram wrote:I can do whatever is needed to provide useful information, but only you know what can help you.
Really...


Use the Quicktime Preset

bouscram
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:43 am

Post by bouscram » Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:50 pm

Cavalicious wrote: Use the Quicktime Preset
It doesn't work either. I also re-tried the Apple TV preset (and many different settings in the past), so it doesn't seem to be related with H.264 parameters (the fact that AVI files work seem to corroborate this).

The problem is that the Media Player software doesn't give any error message. Do you have an idea of something that would be common between HB and FFmpegX H.264 MP4 files, because they are the only ones which have failed in my numerous testings ?

I already submitted the problem on the official support forum (see link in my first post), but with no result - I didn't get an acknowledgement that the dev team has read the post, so I just re-launched the post.

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