Apple TV 4 doesn't play my rips with 5.1

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topcat
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Apple TV 4 doesn't play my rips with 5.1

Post by topcat » Fri Oct 30, 2015 5:59 pm

Hi.
I've just upgraded from an Apple TV 3rd gen to 4th and it seems great so far.
my DVD rips on my 3rd gen have 5.1 playing fine. I've unplugged the Apple TV and put the 4th into the same input and the same files now only play in stereo.

Playing my iTunes purchases play in 5.1 so it does work, just not for my own rips.

Is it working for anybody else?

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Ritsuka
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Re: Apple TV 4 doesn't play my rips with 5.1

Post by Ritsuka » Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:25 pm

Try to open the file in Subler and set the fallback of the ac3 track to the aac one.

topcat
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Re: Apple TV 4 doesn't play my rips with 5.1

Post by topcat » Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:16 pm

Wouldn't that just fall back to AAC stereo? Sound is working on all my movies, it's just it's only playing stereo.
I used the handbrake Apple TV preset and they play fine in 5.1 on my old Apple TV

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BradleyS
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Re: Apple TV 4 doesn't play my rips with 5.1

Post by BradleyS » Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:44 pm

topcat wrote:Wouldn't that just fall back to AAC stereo?
Setting the fallback of the AC3 track to the AAC track creates an explicit association between the two tracks, i.e. "these are interchangeable". See if that helps.

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Re: Apple TV 4 doesn't play my rips with 5.1

Post by topcat » Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:17 pm

Thanks, I'll give it a go.

arcuser
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Re: Apple TV 4 doesn't play my rips with 5.1

Post by arcuser » Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:15 am

topcat wrote:I've just upgraded from an Apple TV 3rd gen to 4th and it seems great so far.
my DVD rips on my 3rd gen have 5.1 playing fine. I've unplugged the Apple TV and put the 4th into the same input and the same files now only play in stereo.
It could be the same/similar problem I was having with the WDTV.

Or it might not.

It sounds similar because I didn't have a "fallback" and no AAC 5.1 tracks would play for me at all, however AAC 2.0 tracks were generally fine.

I reported it already as a bug.

Depends if what you are dealing with is AAC 5.1 or AC3 5.1

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BradleyS
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Re: Apple TV 4 doesn't play my rips with 5.1

Post by BradleyS » Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:12 am

@arcuser That is a wholly separate issue.

topcat
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Re: Apple TV 4 doesn't play my rips with 5.1

Post by topcat » Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:57 am

Well I've not had chance to mess with the files yet but I've managed to get 5.1 sound.
It turns out that the default audio channel is stero but it can still play the 5.1. You have to swipe down on the remote trackpad while watching a movie to bring up an info screen. You then slide across to settings and on there there are language options. I have 2 English. The first and selected option is stereo and if I select the second English option, I get 5.1.
So at the moment it works but needs individually setting for each video.
I'm wondering if I use the subbler application, I can make 5.1 default

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Ritsuka
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Re: Apple TV 4 doesn't play my rips with 5.1

Post by Ritsuka » Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:17 am

Like we already said, If you set the right fallback the AppleTV will know automatically when to use the ac3 track. If there is no fallback set it doesn't know if the ac-3 track is the same track as the aac one, only in a different format, or a different track that contains a different audio.

wmrrock
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Re: Apple TV 4 doesn't play my rips with 5.1

Post by wmrrock » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:36 am

I had the same problem. If you encode with multiple audio codecs i.e. 5.1 and Dolby Stereo, it will default to Dolby stereo 2.0. Start a movie and when the movie is playing - take your new SIRI remote and scroll down from the top. You will see some options "INFO" and "AUDIO" click on the Audio and you will see "ENGLISH" and below that "ENGLISH" again. Swipe to the lower "English" and click on it and you will hear your movies in 5.1. From y experience, it seems that I have to do this each and every time now. I will start to encode all future movies with only 5.1 checked on HB.

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BradleyS
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Re: Apple TV 4 doesn't play my rips with 5.1

Post by BradleyS » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:57 am

Unbelievable.

arcuser
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Re: Apple TV 4 doesn't play my rips with 5.1

Post by arcuser » Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:01 am

BradleyS wrote:@arcuser That is a wholly separate issue.
Okay. Just sounded similar.

topcat
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Re: Apple TV 4 doesn't play my rips with 5.1

Post by topcat » Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:19 pm

Thanks. Finally had time to try this and as you say, editing each movie in Subler fixes the sound on my Apple TV 4 :)
I've never tried this application before so it's been great to be able to add subtitles too.

It's a shame that Handbrske doesn't do this already when encoding using the Apple TV preset, I'm sure the 5.1 thing might trip up a few other users

JMGNYC
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Re: Apple TV 4 doesn't play my rips with 5.1

Post by JMGNYC » Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:35 pm

Apple TV 4 seems to pick up the first audio track when there are 2 of them. If my 5.1 track is first it plays it. If my AAC 2.0 is first it chooses that.

Is there a Windows tool for fixing this? If not then short of re-encoding everything I have I pretty much stuck.

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BradleyS
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Re: Apple TV 4 doesn't play my rips with 5.1

Post by BradleyS » Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:23 am

topcat wrote:It's a shame that Handbrske doesn't do this already when encoding using the Apple TV preset, I'm sure the 5.1 thing might trip up a few other users
It's being discussed. Changes take time, HandBrake being maintained by a volunteer team.
JMGNYC wrote:Apple TV 4 seems to pick up the first audio track when there are 2 of them. If my 5.1 track is first it plays it. If my AAC 2.0 is first it chooses that.

Is there a Windows tool for fixing this? If not then short of re-encoding everything I have I pretty much stuck.
The ideal AAC+AC3 configuration for Apple TV any generation is AAC stereo followed by AC3 5.1. Clearly, the Apple TV 4 doesn't want to automatically switch to the AC3 track in this configuration without the fallback association being set, which is not wrong. Without this association, it will automatically choose the first audio track, which is reasonable.

Subler's a great choice on Mac. On Windows, you're looking for a (re)muxer like MP4Box. There are others but I'll have to wait for someone more familiar with third party apps on the platform to make recommendations.

For the uninitiated, a remuxer can change things about a file without altering the streams inside (without re-encoding).

JMGNYC
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Re: Apple TV 4 doesn't play my rips with 5.1

Post by JMGNYC » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:46 pm

I've tried looking at the MP4Box documentation and various GUIs and I can't see any options for setting fallback.

Apple TV 4 seems to just select the first audio track in the file and play it with anything I've ripped, yet iTunes purchases play the correct surround audio track even if it is not the first one so there's got to be something I can fix without getting a Mac so I can run subler. Anyone have any ideas?

Honestly I'm surprised Handbrake hasn't taken care of this itself. It seems a fairly important feature for Apple TV to pick the correct audio track.

JMGNYC
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Re: Apple TV 4 doesn't play my rips with 5.1

Post by JMGNYC » Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:51 am

So I have found a solution. My MP4Box GUI has a rather arcane menu setting called Apple Friendly V2. Simply add a file make sure that option is selected along with Keep All Tracks and remux. It'll output a new file with all the same tracks and it'll keep all the tags and chapters but it does lose the artwork.

In Apple TV the video will show up with only 1 audio track available but it is the 5.1 AC3 track. This is the same as an iTunes purchased file where only the surrond sound track is shown.

The new file also syncs and plays properly in iPhone and iPad as well as playing in iTunes itself. MediaInfo shows all the tracks in the new file as pretty much untouched.

The only thing I notice about it is that changing any tags or re-adding the artwork seems to take iTunes ages for some reason.

So, I guess this is a solution. Not sure it is completely ideal but I cannot find anything else that works. It certainly would require a bit of work for a lot of files but may be worth it. Before I go that route though I'll check out Plex. I'm not particularly in love with the UI for broswing an iTunes library on Apple TV anyways.

iLarry
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Re: Apple TV 4 doesn't play my rips with 5.1

Post by iLarry » Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:09 am

BradleyS wrote:Clearly, the Apple TV 4 doesn't want to automatically switch to the AC3 track in this configuration
Yes, same issue here :( Tried to encode file with HB with AC3 track only but in this case I'm getting silence while playing file on iPhone/iPad.
BradleyS wrote:Subler's a great choice on Mac.
Thanks, familiarizing with Subler on my Mac now.

mduell
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Re: Apple TV 4 doesn't play my rips with 5.1

Post by mduell » Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:06 am

JMGNYC wrote:Honestly I'm surprised Handbrake hasn't taken care of this itself. It seems a fairly important feature for Apple TV to pick the correct audio track.
Honestly I'm surprised Apple hasn't taken implemented the prior behavior that took care of this itself. It seems a fairly important feature for Apple TV to pick the correct audio track.
iLarry wrote:Yes, same issue here :( Tried to encode file with HB with AC3 track only but in this case I'm getting silence while playing file on iPhone/iPad.
No technical issues there, Apple doesn't want to pay the AC3 licensing fee on the portables.

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Re: Apple TV 4 doesn't play my rips with 5.1

Post by iLarry » Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:30 pm

mduell wrote:Honestly I'm surprised Apple hasn't taken implemented the prior behavior that took care of this itself. It seems a fairly important feature for Apple TV to pick the correct audio track.
Sure, you're right. But seems as this Apple mistake could be corrected with encoding software, as HB (in next builds) or with Subler (currently encoding with it).
mduell wrote:Apple doesn't want to pay the AC3 licensing fee on the portables.
Thanks, I never knew it.

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Re: Apple TV 4 doesn't play my rips with 5.1

Post by mduell » Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:12 pm

iLarry wrote:
mduell wrote:Honestly I'm surprised Apple hasn't taken implemented the prior behavior that took care of this itself. It seems a fairly important feature for Apple TV to pick the correct audio track.
Sure, you're right. But seems as this Apple mistake could be corrected with encoding software, as HB (in next builds) or with Subler (currently encoding with it).
Except every prior HB encode has the problem. Apple really needs to fix this one.

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Ritsuka
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Re: Apple TV 4 doesn't play my rips with 5.1

Post by Ritsuka » Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:14 pm

Ahahah.

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JohnAStebbins
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Re: Apple TV 4 doesn't play my rips with 5.1

Post by JohnAStebbins » Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:12 pm

But going forward, we should have a solution in the nightly builds as soon as we can review, and test this patch
https://github.com/HandBrake/HandBrake/pull/30

bouvin
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Re: Apple TV 4 doesn't play my rips with 5.1

Post by bouvin » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:06 pm

While setting the fallback certainly works (and undoubtedly is the correct solution going forward), it also works to set "Surround Sound" to "Dolby Surround" (rather than "Auto") in "Audio and Video" settings.

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BradleyS
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Re: Apple TV 4 doesn't play my rips with 5.1

Post by BradleyS » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:24 pm

(Initially I thought you meant Dolby Surround in HandBrake, which is not 5.1.)

Good to know that setting still exists in the new Apple TV software.

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