Best settings for multiple devices

Discuss encoding for devices and presets.
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jkbuster
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:26 pm

Re: Best settings for multiple devices

Post by jkbuster »

jbrjake wrote:
jkbuster wrote:Do keep in mind that as technology progresses, DVDs are "losing" quality in comparison to what's on the market (i.e. Blue-Ray). Unfortunately (sort of), the tech world keeps upgrading even though the movie was only shot at a certain resolution. It's not a simple task to upgrade a film to HD when it was shot on a SD camera.
Huh? Any film has higher resolution than HD. Film can be scanned at ~3000 lines.

Maybe you meant video...
Yea, sorry. Physical film has AMAZING quality but "digital" copies is what I'm talking about. (I.e. LaserDisc, VHS, DVD, mp4, etc.)
tcskeptic
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:25 pm

Re: Best settings for multiple devices

Post by tcskeptic »

I'm working to find a nice (reasonably fast to create, reasonably high quality) compatible subset that will work now on both XBOX 360 and the AppleTV (and in the future, PS3).

Based on what I had read in the forums (possibly based on 0.9.1) I tested the 0.9.2 AppleTV preset, but attempting to playback off of a flashdrive (or streamed from WMP11 for that matter) results in an XBOX error "Unplayable Content". Further research led me to conclude that the issue may have been the AC3 audio being included, so I unchecked that and re-encoded but still have the same error.

I am planning to continue to work through the differences, starting from AppleTV and eliminating possible issues, but wonder if anyone has already done it?
jkbuster
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Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:26 pm

Re: Best settings for multiple devices

Post by jkbuster »

Sorry, I don't own an xbox. My roommate has one but it plays thru the same TV as my AppleTV so I don't watch movies of the xbox, ever.

JKB
dr.glyndwr
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:14 am

Re: Best settings for multiple devices

Post by dr.glyndwr »

Going away from ATV/iPhone rips, has anyone figured out a profile that works across the PSP and iPhone? I'm trying to compare the two devices and it'd be useful to be able to play the same files.

My current settings are H.264 rips at 480 maximum width, 500kbps constant bitrate (number plucked from the air), two pass encoding. The devil seems to be in the advanced x264 options string. These PSP settings from a thread on here somewhere

Code: Select all

bframes=3:bime=1:b-rdo=1:direct=auto:level=21:me=umh:mixed-refs=1:no-fast-pskip=1:partitions=all:ref=2:subme=7:threads=4:weightb=1
produced great looking files on the PSP that don't look too bad even when played back on my modest 32" TV (via the PS3, not the PSP's TV output). These files sync to the iPhone through iTunes without warning, but the iPhone doesn't list them in the Videos list. There must be some setting in there it doesn't like.

Meanwhile iPhone preset (in Handbrake v0.9.2) sync and play fine

Code: Select all

level=30:cabac=0:ref=1:analyse=all:me=umh:subme=6:no-fast-pskip=1:trellis=1
but won't play on the PSP.

I need to research these settings and find out which one is mucking things up. I'd really like to produce one "rip for mobile device" that works on both platforms. If anyone can give me some pointers, I'd appreciate it. I have found out the PSP only supports H.264 level 2.1, not 3.0, which may be why the iPhone preset files won't play there.
sceaga
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Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Best settings for multiple devices

Post by sceaga »

I too am trying to figure out a preset that will allow me to use the same video file on my iPhone and PSP. I use the following advanced settings for iPhone:

Code: Select all

level=30:cabac=0:ref=1:analyse=all:me=umh:subq=6:no-fast-pskip=1:trellis=1
and the following for PSP:

Code: Select all

ref=2:mixed-refs=1:bframes=5:brdo=1:bime=1:weightb=1:subq=7:trellis=1:analyse=all:level=3:merange=64:no-fast-pskip=1:me=umh:sar=1/1
The other video, audio, and quality tab settings are all set the same, except the iPhone has the "iPod Atom" enabled. I can confirm that "level=3" DOES work on the PSP (at least mine with firmware version 4.05).

I'm purely guessing here, but I think the incompatibility between the two may have something to do with the "CABAC" option. The iPhone encode has it disabled, and the PSP encode has it enabled.

Anyone have any ideas or suggestions? I'd really like to be able to encode these movies once, and use on both devices. Is this possible? I don't care about TV quality or other devices, only playability on iPhone and PSP with the same video file.
sceaga
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Best settings for multiple devices

Post by sceaga »

Ok, after running numerous tests, the following Advanced settings string will generate a video file that will work on BOTH the iPhone and PSP:

Code: Select all

level=21:cabac=0:ref=2:analyse=all:me=umh:subq=7:no-fast-pskip=1:merange=64:mixed-refs=1
Apparently, if you look at this page: http://forum.handbrake.fr/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3859

You will see that the real culprit here is that the iPhone does NOT handle B-frames. So you can't enable any of the B-frame options, or the iPhone will not accept the video. Also, after running numerous tests, it appears that you cannot have CABAC enabled either, or the iPhone won't accept it.

Also, I tried changing the "level=21" to "level=3" or "level=30", and the iPhone would still play / accept the video, but the PSP no longer would. However, if you look at my earlier posting, I was able to generate a file that worked on the PSP with "level=3". So I'm thinking now that if you need "level=30" (or "level=3"), you have to enable CABAC, but then that kills the iPhone support.

Now, I just need to figure out the best bit rate / quality settings I like vs. file size, and I can now encode one file that will work on both my mobile devices. If anyone has any suggestions on improving the above settings for quality (without sacrificing too much size or encoding time), I'd appreciate it.

Bottom line, those settings will generate a working file for both iPhone and PSP, and that was my primary goal!

Hope this helps someone.
rhester
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Re: Best settings for multiple devices

Post by rhester »

You could have just read here:

http://forum.handbrake.fr/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3859

and found out in 15 seconds that the iPhone supports neither b-frames nor CABAC.

Level 3.0 does not require CABAC, but the level you are setting has nothing to do with the level that is encoded into the output file. It is a hint to the encoder that it should not exceed the maximum specifications of that level, even if you asked it to do otherwise, but the *actual* level used (generally 2.1 in the case of high-resolution iPhone encodes) is what is written into the header.

Rodney
dr.glyndwr
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Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:14 am

Re: Best settings for multiple devices

Post by dr.glyndwr »

rhester wrote:and found out in 15 seconds that the iPhone supports neither b-frames nor CABAC.
Well, yeah, but both me and (I'm guessing) sceaga are n00bs. It's damned hard to search effectively for information until you know enough to know what you are looking for, if you see what I mean.

Sceaga, many thanks for these settings -- I'm trying my first encode out now. I'm getting 45fps ish on a quad-core 3Ghz Intel machine. I've gone for CQ 60% in this encode; in the past I've had luck with 512kbit/sec, at which rate a 45min TV show comes in at around 190Mb. That bitrate still looks good on the teeny screens on the iPhone and PSP, so I think I will try going below that to see if I can squeeze the files any more.

Is it possible to add more profiles to the right hand list in Handbrake 0.9.2 for Windows?
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s55
HandBrake Team
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Re: Best settings for multiple devices

Post by s55 »

in the next release, yes but not 0.9.2
Firedpottery
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Re: Best settings for multiple devices

Post by Firedpottery »

Just a few more questions, I'm revisiting some of the threads and I have a few noob questions, well kinda, okay maybe I do. So how using more than one frame ref, is it going to significantly reduce the battery life on iPod/in this case, iPhone, playback? My understanding is no, and I was going to start encoding all my iPod rips at least 2 ref as 5.0/5.5 can only handle 2, but then again I thought about 3 for the iPhone, eh, just curious as although quality and bitrate are important, but not at the expense of battery life, so just curious. I use double passes, always these days, so trellis, my understanding is it should help the encoding efficiency in a double pass but not hurt the playback performance on the iPod/iPhone, is this true or does it hurt decoding performance, aka, battery loss? Or is it a bad idea altogether? Just curious. And I'm starting to hear stuff about PsyRDO, interesting, but from my reading it involves using Bframes, which breaks compatibility with iPod/iPhone playback, or is PsyRDO not rate distortion dependent? There doesn't seem to be much reference to it, but it seems to be assumed, just checking as Psy meaning mind and RD, was wondering if it was an independent patch that doesn't break compatibility, that's all, I'm betting the answer to that is no, but thought I'd ask.
rhester
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Re: Best settings for multiple devices

Post by rhester »

- More than one reference frame will have an impact. How much? It depends.

- Trellis does not affect decoding performance, only encoding.

- PsyRDO does not require b-frames.

doom9 is probably the best place to ask x264 encoder-specific questions, as we are merely clients of that tool, not inventors of. ;)

Rodney
jbrjake
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Re: Best settings for multiple devices

Post by jbrjake »

rhester wrote:- Trellis does not affect decoding performance, only encoding.
...and is pointless for iPod encodes since it requires CABAC.
rhester
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Re: Best settings for multiple devices

Post by rhester »

jbrjake wrote:
rhester wrote:- Trellis does not affect decoding performance, only encoding.
...and is pointless for iPod encodes since it requires CABAC.
Even PsyRDO-trellis-1? I thought that was true only of trellis-2, but my memory is a bit fuzzy on this point.

Rodney
jbrjake
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Re: Best settings for multiple devices

Post by jbrjake »

rhester wrote:
jbrjake wrote:
rhester wrote:- Trellis does not affect decoding performance, only encoding.
...and is pointless for iPod encodes since it requires CABAC.
Even PsyRDO-trellis-1? I thought that was true only of trellis-2, but my memory is a bit fuzzy on this point.
x264/encoder/encoder.c:

Code: Select all

    if( !h->param.b_cabac )
        h->param.analyse.i_trellis = 0;
    h->param.analyse.i_trellis = x264_clip3( h->param.analyse.i_trellis, 0, 2 );
    if( !h->param.analyse.i_trellis )
        h->param.analyse.f_psy_trellis = 0;
So it goes:
No CABAC? Trellis is 0. Trellis is 0? No psy-trellis.
Firedpottery
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:56 am

Re: Best settings for multiple devices

Post by Firedpottery »

Hmph, no trellis or psytrellis without CABAC and last time I checked iPods are not CABAC happy, no dice then. At least I don't have recode a bunch of stuff on the bright side :|
AlexanderVx2
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Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:36 am

Re: Best settings for multiple devices

Post by AlexanderVx2 »

I've searched the forum and haven't found any perfect answer to my question. I just find different answers and no total "guide" to all the settings.

What are THE best settings for DVD to PSP conversion?

Resolution? 720x480 or 720x304? Should widescreen movies still be stretched out to 720x480?

Should the cropping be set to auto?

Can the PSP play both 25 fps and 29,97 fps?

What is the best setting for the "x264 advanced option string"? I've seen people say level 3, level 30, and level 21. What should be written in this string, for the best quality PSP movie?

What should the "Average bitrate" be set to?

I want to know the ultimate settings for converting a DVD to a movie that is playable on a PSP, and which will also look good when connecting the PSP to a TV.

I would REALLY appreciate your help! :D

Thanks in advance... :)
rhester
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Re: Best settings for multiple devices

Post by rhester »

Please don't double-post and hijack other threads. This is your first and only warning.

Rodney
paduck
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Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:35 pm

Re: Best settings for multiple devices

Post by paduck »

I did a little experimenting this weekend with the "Universal" and "Legacy iPod" (aka- iPod Hirez) presets using "The Great Escape." The final difference in size was about 400MB. If I understand correctly, the Legacy iPod setting will work on my 5G Video iPod where a Universal will not. Also, I seem to be about 20% larger on the file size under Universal.

I guess the question then is, what is the advantage of Universal over the old Legacy iPod setting? I'm guessing there is a higher level of quality, but with a 32" HDTV connected to my AppleTV, and iPhone and an iPod, I'm guessing I won't see it.

Does this make the old Legacy iPod setting the true "Universal"?

BTW - I love all the new encoding options! Great work guys!
rhester
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Re: Best settings for multiple devices

Post by rhester »

I'd guess you will see quite a significant difference in quality, depending on the source - but other than that, everything else you said is pretty much accurate.

Rodney
jbrjake
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Re: Best settings for multiple devices

Post by jbrjake »

paduck wrote:I guess the question then is, what is the advantage of Universal over the old Legacy iPod setting? I'm guessing there is a higher level of quality, but with a 32" HDTV connected to my AppleTV, and iPhone and an iPod, I'm guessing I won't see it.
You don't think there's a difference between displaying 640*368 and 854*480 for widescreen NTSC video?
Does this make the old Legacy iPod setting the true "Universal"?
If you enjoy lower resolution video with a highly constrained max bitrate that puts an upper limit on picture quality, and muddy low-quality audio on your home theater system....yes. The point of the Universal preset is to not compromise on such things. It's to deliver something that looks and sounds just as good as the AppleTV preset but plays on all modern devices.
Roobiky
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Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:48 pm

Re: Best settings for multiple devices

Post by Roobiky »

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post on this forum and I am pretty new using Handbrake. I have a 16 GB iPod touch (1st generation) and I have been using iPod/iPhone preset and so far it has been working really good for me. I will be getting the component cables for the iPod touch soon to hook up to my tv (37" LG LCD). Is the "iPod High Res" the best setting to set it to for viewing the movie on the iPod and tv? Or is there another preset I should use? Thank you in advance....
rhester
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Re: Best settings for multiple devices

Post by rhester »

Apple Universal in 0.9.3 - and please don't hijack unrelated threads in the future.

Rodney
Roobiky
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Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:48 pm

Re: Best settings for multiple devices

Post by Roobiky »

rhester wrote:Apple Universal in 0.9.3 - and please don't hijack unrelated threads in the future.

Rodney
Thank You for your suggestion. I apologize for "hijacking a unrelated thread". I didn't think that my post was unrelated. :? I have not yet updated my software to 0.9.3. I will probably update that tonight and try that. I was not planning on updated the software because I got so used to using the version I have and I did not want to retrain myself with a new software. :)
Thanks again for you fast reply....
Modular1
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Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:34 am

Re: Best settings for multiple devices

Post by Modular1 »

hey there. im gonna be getting ATV for crimbo. ive currently got a 5g ipod and have been using the ipod hires setting for a while now to encode films for it. to ensure compatability i was going to stick to the same setting, which seems to be the advise everyone is giving here. am i right to think the universal setting does not apply to the 5g ipod.

the other question i was going to ask relates to this... my dad wants an ipod so i was going to sell him mine and upgrade to an ipod classic. will the ipod classic play the universal setting files even tho the res will be 720x***? if it does im going to start encoding with the new universal setting.

could somebody just clarify that the ipod classic will play these files (because according to the spec appears it will not, making it not really a universal setting!) before i shoot myself in the foot.
rhester
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Re: Best settings for multiple devices

Post by rhester »

The 5/5.5G will not grok Universal, every other iPod will.

Rodney
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