The new iPod Nano, Classic and Touch

Discuss encoding for devices and presets.
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pizzaspecial
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The new iPod Nano, Classic and Touch

Post by pizzaspecial »

What is the best setting to encode movies for these devices ?
realityking
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Post by realityking »

iPod Low-Res, iPods High-Res, iPhone. Depends on what you want.
dynaflash
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Post by dynaflash »

Hence our preset names :)
pizzaspecial
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Post by pizzaspecial »

Yes they are great for the older generation iPods

The new iPods are capable of much greater video quality

Just wondering if anyone has come up with a good setting for them
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s55
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Post by s55 »

experiment for yourself then. Read the ipod spec and make your own preset based on that.
You'll find that the old ipods are capable of more than you think anyway. The restriction was always in iTunes which has been relaxed in the latest releases.
dynaflash
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Post by dynaflash »

As well, realize that us devs do not necessarily run out and buy all of the latest right away, so tbh in some instances, we rely as much on your feedback regarding settings as anything else. If a dev has the device, then we can more easily put together a reasonable preset.
pizzaspecial
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Post by pizzaspecial »

Would be cool if us users could donate money to the Handbrake project for this reason.

I have an iPod Classic i will experiment with a few setting and post back my findings

Handbrake is the best program of it's kind :)
jbrjake
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Post by jbrjake »

pizzaspecial wrote:The new iPods are capable of much greater video quality
No. They aren't. Still no b-frames, still no cabac, and that's just to start. The only thing that's changed is the capability of storing much greater sized video, in both bitrate and resolution. The quality itself hasn't changed because Apple still isn't using hardware capable of using h.264's strengths.

Sure, if you have a Classic, maybe use a higher bitrate to waste all that storage space -- though with the PSNRs and average frame QPs the iPod presets already reach, you won't be able to see much difference on a 320*240 screen. If you're watching a lot of video on a tv rather than the iPod screen, maybe use a 720 width.

But arguing that the current presets aren't suited to the new iPods is absurd. Get back to me when the iTunes store videos get an upgrade.
pizzaspecial
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Post by pizzaspecial »

720 by xxx at 2500 kbps looks better than 640 by xxx at 2500 kbps on my 42 inch 720p panasonic

I don't see how that is wasted space

Using visualhubs iPod classics setting produces a much higher quality video than handbrakes ipods high rez setting with the bitrate at 2500
jbrjake
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Post by jbrjake »

pizzaspecial wrote:720 by xxx at 2500 kbps looks better than 640 by xxx at 2500 kbps on my 42 inch 720p panasonic
I don't see how that is wasted space
The iPod doesn't have a 42" 720p screen, now does it? That's why it's wasted space. I don't know what you're trying to refute here, since in my last post I said "If you're watching a lot of video on a tv rather than the iPod screen, maybe use a 720 width."

You're ignoring my main point, which is that the new iPods are *not* capable of any different video quality than the last gen iPods. They use the same [Censored] h.264 settings. Improved quality would mean it'd look better at the *same* bitrate and resolution.
rhester
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Post by rhester »

pizzaspecial wrote:720 by xxx at 2500 kbps looks better than 640 by xxx at 2500 kbps on my 42 inch 720p panasonic
You are saying the new iPod line can output true 16:9 widescreen? (In other words, if you watch 640xX content and 720xX content in wide mode without zoom, the 720xX one is visually wider on-screen?)

Rodney
Durendal
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Post by Durendal »

The new iPods don't just have support for 640x480 with the baseline low-complexity profile, though. They have support for the baseline profile up to level 3.0 at 640x480 (and is H.264 on the new iPods still hardlocked at a max 640 width?), which, if I'm not mistaken, yields higher quality at the same bitrate. If so, then the new iPods DO support higher quality video than the older models. Can someone confirm this?
Last edited by Durendal on Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
dynaflash
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Post by dynaflash »

Durendal wrote:The new iPods don't just have support for 640x480 with the baseline low-complexity profile, though. They have support for the baseline profile up to level 3.0, which, if I'm not mistaken, yields higher quality at the same bitrate. If so, then the new iPods DO support higher quality video than the older models. Can someone confirm this?
Um, ipods have supported baseline profile level 3.0 for a long time. We have used baseline in level 3.0 for HB since the mediafork release.

Last version of of HB to use level 1.3 was HB 0.7.1 as I recall.
Durendal
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Post by Durendal »

dynaflash wrote: Um, ipods have supported baseline profile level 3.0 for a long time. We have used baseline in level 3.0 for HB since the mediafork release.

Last version of of HB to use level 1.3 was HB 0.7.1 as I recall.
I thought that it only supported 1.3 at up to 320x240 in the initial release before 640x480 with the LC profile was released. I saw no mention of any levels on the iPod specs at 640x480, just baseline LC. Maybe I'm mixed up on the whole thing.
dynaflash
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Post by dynaflash »

Durendal wrote:
dynaflash wrote: Um, ipods have supported baseline profile level 3.0 for a long time. We have used baseline in level 3.0 for HB since the mediafork release.

Last version of of HB to use level 1.3 was HB 0.7.1 as I recall.
I thought that it only supported 1.3 at up to 320x240 in the initial release before 640x480 with the LC profile was released. I saw no mention of any levels on the iPod specs at 640x480, just baseline LC. Maybe I'm mixed up on the whole thing.
Well, this is from Handbrake svn rev 70 which was from 9/30/06 which was the first commit after titer went on hiatus. It is the code that the MacGui uses to tell libhb what level to set for the iPod. So everyone has been running baseline level 3.0 for HandBrake iPod encodes since then whether you have known it or not :)

Code: Select all

				/* Baseline Level 3.0
				   For iPods w/ fimware 1.2 */
				job->h264_level = 30;
				job->mux = HB_MUX_IPOD;
Durendal
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Post by Durendal »

Well, I'll be darned. Looks like Apple simply didn't document it, but it worked anyway, unless 3.0 is encompassed by the whole baseline LC profile. Is baseline LC just a more broad category encompassing numerous encoding schemes?
dynaflash
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Post by dynaflash »

Durendal wrote:Well, I'll be darned. Looks like Apple simply didn't document it, but it worked anyway, unless 3.0 is encompassed by the whole baseline LC profile. Is baseline LC just a more broad category encompassing numerous encoding schemes?
Low Complexity is an apple coined term, just means "without some of the cool stuff the standard offers" or something like that.

Apple did document it. That is what made us change it and actually was the catalyst for rhester resurrecting HandBrake :)
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