Improved bitrate supported on new iPods

Discuss encoding for devices and presets.
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drebes
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Improved bitrate supported on new iPods

Post by drebes »

It seems Apple has improved the h.264 support on the new iPods:
H.264 video, up to 1.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Low-Complexity version of the H.264 Baseline Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; H.264 video, up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Baseline Profile up to Level 3.0 with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; MPEG-4 video, up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Simple Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats
With such improved bitrate, maybe it would now be worthy to support 640 width limited anamorphic encoding for the iPods.
Durendal
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Post by Durendal »

I noticed that little-advertised upgrade. Hopefully there's a retroactive upgrade for old iPods. In any case, it should be a simple addition to Handbrake as the LC 3.0 was the original 320x240 spec for iPod video encoding. If this will do widescreen video at greater than 640 width, there will be no more reason to use MP4 on the iPod.
voxsola
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Post by voxsola »

Anyone notice if the new display will be capable of better than the current 16-bit (65,536) color? If not, it's a deal breaker for me... I'd still be stuck with the crappy gradients... :(
Ralph The Magician
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Post by Ralph The Magician »

This got me wondering about the actual playback capabilities of the iPhone. Now, it was just a quick preliminary test, but I created a little 3m clip through a single-pass with ABR 2500Kbps, and it works just fine.
bwhaler
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Post by bwhaler »

So, and sorry for being a neub, but what is the very best setting I can use now?

Can I select iPod Hi - Res and kick the bit rate up to 2,500? Or does this mean I can pick the Apple TV setting?

I'd love to have the best quality I can for the new iPods and the Apple TV's. I also have an iPhone, but I understand the iPhones have very limited video output, so that is less of a worry. (Unless I am wrong about this.)

Thanks so much in advance.
rhester
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Post by rhester »

We're still researching the bitrate issue. I have no knowledge of whether the iPhone/iPod Touch has a 16-bit or 24-bit LCD.

Rodney
hawkman
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Post by hawkman »

bwhaler wrote:Or does this mean I can pick the Apple TV setting?
Heh, I'm afraid not.

Initial indications are that [higher bitrates] may be possible, but with some pretty big caveats - simply encoding to 2500 without setting some other stuff correctly will result in a movie that skips and jumps a fair amount.

[edited for clarity]
Last edited by hawkman on Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
dynaflash
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Post by dynaflash »

Right, the atv preset has some other things besides bitrate that would cause it not to work with the iPod, like bframes=3 for one.
catskinsox
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Post by catskinsox »

Btw, it appears that this improved bitrate works on the 5th Gen Video. I think iTunes 7.4 simply removed a software limitation of the bitrate. I used Handbrake to rip one chapter from Kill Bill Vol. 1 (ch 6), by using the Hi Rez iPod setting, and simply changing the bit rate for the video from 1500 to 2500. Verified the bitrate in iTunes, tried to sync with the 5th Gen ipod... all was fine. Plays fine too.

Carl
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s55
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Post by s55 »

@catskinsox - Itunes 7.4 didnt remove the limit as I've been using 7.3 to do this for some time.
borgclone
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Post by borgclone »

Anyone know if 720x480 or 720x304 or 3xx works on the new iPod classics with H.264?
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s55
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Post by s55 »

The specs say it doesn't. Certainly not something iTunes will allow you to transfer if it does.
dynaflash
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Post by dynaflash »

borgclone wrote:Anyone know if 720x480 or 720x304 or 3xx works on the new iPod classics with H.264?
Cant say for sure, but seems unlikely as its beyond the published specs. But might be worth a try once someone gets one.
hawkman
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Post by hawkman »

I assume it'll be the same case as before - the iPod will play anything below the macroblock limit (so 720*480 won't work, but 720*3xx would), but iTunes won't let you transfer it.

We'll know soon though. :)
pizzaspecial
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Post by pizzaspecial »

The iPod nano and iPod classic support 720x400 now.

I was also able to get a 2.5Mbps file to play on the 5G iPod
dynaflash
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Post by dynaflash »

Yep, 5 G ipod will play 2500 kbps abr video in x264, I strongly recommend adding vbv buffering though to keep bitrate spikes down so you are less likely to lose frames during complex scenes.

I am using this advanced opt string for testing with good results:

Code: Select all

keyint=300:keyint-min=30:bframes=0:cabac=0:ref=1:vbv-maxrate=2500:vbv-bufsize=2000:analyse=all:me=umh:subq=6:no-fast-pskip=1
Note: Once again, remember that x264 does not observe any vbv buffering in two pass mode, so the buffering will only work using single pass.
pizzaspecial
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Post by pizzaspecial »

720x400 2500kbps + keyint=300:keyint-min=30:bframes=0:cabac=0:ref=1:vbv-maxrate=2500:vbv-bufsize=2000:analyse=all:me=umh:subq=6:no-fast-pskip=1
= superb video quality on ipod classic

Thnks for all the hard work put into handbrake
dynaflash
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Post by dynaflash »

pizzaspecial, so you are actually using this on an iPod Classic ? Anyone try transferring a 720 wide x264 on a 5 G ?
pizzaspecial
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Post by pizzaspecial »

Yes i have tested those settings on an ipod classic and so far 3 dvds have worked perfectly

I actually select the high rez preset in handbrake up the kbps to 2500 and change the resolution to 720x400

Plays on an ipod classic perfectly

Transfered using itunes too
voxsola
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Post by voxsola »

pizzaspecial wrote:Yes i have tested those settings on an ipod classic and so far 3 dvds have worked perfectly

I actually select the high rez preset in handbrake up the kbps to 2500 and change the resolution to 720x400

Plays on an ipod classic perfectly

Transfered using itunes too
Yes but... does it play with any finesse! Can you watch the thing ON the iPod screen or does it look like a bad animated .gif!

I have never had a problem with the small screen, but the mottled greenish faces, banded gradients etc. on some videos, especially sci-fi don't inspire me to buy another iPod that's no better.
catskinsox
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Post by catskinsox »

sr55 wrote:@catskinsox - Itunes 7.4 didnt remove the limit as I've been using 7.3 to do this for some time.
Ok, thanks for the correction. I swear the last time I tried it, it gave me an error message. Must have been prior to 7.3 when I did it.
milo
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Post by milo »

I don't know if this info will be useful, but the apple store's page for their new video cables lists slightly different specs:

Note: Component video output to television is supported by iPod nano (third generation) and iPod classic at 480p or 576p resolution, and by iPod touch at 480i or 576i resolution.

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/W ... =MB128LL/A

Maybe worth trying some different settings for the new ipods based on this?
OSMacintosh
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Post by OSMacintosh »

Just wanted to say I did a movie with 2.5 mpbs, at 160 audio AAC (640 by 480) and it works on the iPhone! Of course I was using Handbrake for this lol.

:D

Beautiful quality
pizzaspecial
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Post by pizzaspecial »

voxsola wrote:
pizzaspecial wrote:Yes i have tested those settings on an ipod classic and so far 3 dvds have worked perfectly

I actually select the high rez preset in handbrake up the kbps to 2500 and change the resolution to 720x400

Plays on an ipod classic perfectly

Transfered using itunes too
Yes but... does it play with any finesse! Can you watch the thing ON the iPod screen or does it look like a bad animated .gif!

I have never had a problem with the small screen, but the mottled greenish faces, banded gradients etc. on some videos, especially sci-fi don't inspire me to buy another iPod that's no better.
The video quality on the iPod classic screen is very good so is the output to a 720p 42inch Plasma
OSMacintosh
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Post by OSMacintosh »

Hello,

Big news with the new iPhone and Handbrake... I was able to get high resolutions (full resolutions not 640 width) with very high bitrates way above 2.5 mbps to work with the iPhone.

Very amazing I must say... I was loading these up via iTunes.

I have tested small clips with Bitrates at 3.0, 4.0 and 5.0 mbps.

Looks like these iPods are the TRUE VIDEO ipods.

I will post if any problems happen... so far though all is working well..

REMEMBER these are small clips so test away I think you will be surpised by what you can put on these new iPods/iPhones.

ENJOY
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