*** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Discuss encoding for devices and presets.
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photocopy
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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by photocopy »

I've noticed on BR's where I am using DTS Passthru, that my ATV is only playing the stereo file. I'm not sure if this is because it's DTS-HD, or what exactly is going on. Is it recommended to transcode to AC3(ffmpeg) using the default Dolby Pro Logic II settings?

TedJ
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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by TedJ »

Yes. The ATV will not play DTSHD-MA nor standard DTS audio. Transcode to AC3 6-channel discrete instead.

dcstuurman

Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by dcstuurman »

Hi all,

I have read this topic with great interest, but maybe because I am new into Movies, Blu-Ray, Ripping, Apple TV and Handbrake and English is not my default language it al seems so complicated. It is indeed to bad that the previous Apple TV (number 2) had a preset that most people could easily recognize. And wouldn't it be nice if there would be some brand-new presets like this:
Blu-Ray -> Apple TV 3
HD-DVD -> Apple TV 3
DVD -> Apple TV 3

Of course all of them with presets that make sense for 90% of Handbrake users

Now I only have to figure out how to rip it a Blu-Ray in the first place on my iMac...

gerro69
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:12 am

Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by gerro69 »

Hi all,

Ted3, can I just clarify, I also want to get 5.1 sound via Apple TV.

So under audio tab - Leave it as source English (Ac3) (Dolby Surround), change Audio codec to AC3 (ffmpeg?), change Mixdown to 6-channel discreet, leave samplerate - auto and Bitrate - 640 as is, and that should work on Atv (I have AT3)?

The main query was if we are supposed to choose AC3 (ffmpeg) it seems (For the first/top line) ?

Thanks

TedJ wrote:Transcode to AC3 6-channel discrete instead.

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Rodeo
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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by Rodeo »

gerro69 wrote:Hi all,

Ted3, can I just clarify, I also want to get 5.1 sound via Apple TV.

So under audio tab - Leave it as source English (Ac3) (Dolby Surround), change Audio codec to AC3 (ffmpeg?), change Mixdown to 6-channel discreet, leave samplerate - auto and Bitrate - 640 as is, and that should work on Atv (I have AT3)?
No. Select the 5.1 track as the source (that would be DTS, or sometimes, LPCM).
You got the output settings right, however (ffmpeg AC3, 6-channel discrete).

Tango223
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Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 4:23 am

Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by Tango223 »

Howdy all!

New to the forums but been using Handbrake off and on for years. This particular post has been extremely helpful but there is one question/problem I am having and hope someone can help out. Is it possible to encode one file that is playable on Apple TV 2 and 3 with surround sound, but also possible to play on an iPad 2 or 3 with stereo sound?

Using the movie Cars, I tried a couple times and finally got it to work and look great on Apple TV with surround sound, but when I play it on my iPad it only shows video and plays no audio. Here is the the MediaInfo on my encode. Hope I did this right! It was understanding that the iPad supports AAC-LC in Stereo. Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!

Tango

Code: Select all

General
Complete name                            : D:\Bluray Encodes\Cars.m4v
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42
File size                                : 3.47 GiB
Duration                                 : 1h 56mn
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 4 259 Kbps
Encoded date                             : UTC 2012-05-03 01:07:49
Tagged date                              : UTC 2012-05-03 02:03:50
Writing application                      : HandBrake 0.9.6 2012022800

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L3.1
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 4 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 1h 56mn
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 3 774 Kbps
Width                                    : 1 280 pixels
Height                                   : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Variable
Frame rate                               : 23.976 fps
Minimum frame rate                       : 23.974 fps
Maximum frame rate                       : 23.981 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.171
Stream size                              : 3.07 GiB (89%)
Writing library                          : x264 core 120
Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=7 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=12 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=240 / keyint_min=24 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=40 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=18.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=3 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Encoded date                             : UTC 2012-05-03 01:07:49
Tagged date                              : UTC 2012-05-03 02:03:50
Color primaries                          : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4, SMPTE RP177
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709-5, BT.1361
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4 709, SMPTE RP177

Audio #1
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension                           : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness              : Big
Codec ID                                 : ac-3
Duration                                 : 1h 56mn
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 320 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -83ms
Stream size                              : 267 MiB (8%)
Encoded date                             : UTC 2012-05-03 01:07:49
Tagged date                              : UTC 2012-05-03 02:03:49

Audio #2
ID                                       : 3
Format                                   : AAC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                           : LC
Codec ID                                 : 40
Duration                                 : 1h 56mn
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 160 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                         : 258 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -83ms
Stream size                              : 133 MiB (4%)
Encoded date                             : UTC 2012-05-03 01:07:49
Tagged date                              : UTC 2012-05-03 02:03:49
Last edited by Rodeo on Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Logs must be placed in between [code] [/code] blocks

TedJ
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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by TedJ »

You want to have the AAC track as your primary audio track, just like the Apple TV 2 preset.

Tango223
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Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 4:23 am

Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by Tango223 »

Ooh. So I set that as the primary then the surround as a secondary? That's super easy! Thanks so much!

I also discovered on this attempt I did strict Anamorphic with no cropping and that is less than ideal. Is Loose with a Modulus of 16 and automatic cropping the preferred method (and probably why it is the preset :P)?

If I am not overly concerned about 1080p, should I just use the AppleTV 2 preset unchanged?

Thanks again for the help!

TOMMYTHETECH
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Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:03 am

Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by TOMMYTHETECH »

Hello everyone, i am new to all of the stuff, i do have a Apple TV 3, i just need a step by step to set up handbrake so i can get 1080 in the best quality for my 70" SHARP AQUIOS 3D 240 hz.
Thanks in advance!

Tommy :D

galevin
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Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:02 am

Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by galevin »

I haven't seen this question previously answered, but forgive me if I've overlooked it.

I now have an AppleTV 3. What is the best preset to use if I'm strictly ripping DVDs, not Blu-Rays? Quality is the goal. Given the source material, are either of the two presets at the top of this thread going to be better than the AppleTV 2 preset?

As a tiebreaker, I also have an iPad 2, so a preset that's also compatible with that would be great, but not a hard requirement. On the rare occasion that I put a movie on the iPad, I'm happy to rip an optimized version for that device.

Finally, would the answer to the above change if my secondary device was an iPad 3? Just trying to plan for the future!

Thank you in advance for your guidance.

zprewitt
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Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:54 pm

Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by zprewitt »

Didn't see this addressed in this thread, but I loaded a BR rip ripped with MakeMKV into HB and noticed that while the source AR was 1920x1080, the Display Size listed below that showed 1920x812. Any way to fix this?

nightstrm
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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by nightstrm »

zprewitt wrote:Didn't see this addressed in this thread, but I loaded a BR rip ripped with MakeMKV into HB and noticed that while the source AR was 1920x1080, the Display Size listed below that showed 1920x812. Any way to fix this?
Without seeing a log, I'd bet the difference is the cropping of the black bar areas from the original frame.

GregiBoy
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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by GregiBoy »

And if that is the case, it does not need fixing.

djmeff22
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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by djmeff22 »

Has anyone started encoding with the new AppleTV 3 preset. I have a late 2009 iMac with 3.06 ghz processor and 4 gb ram and I'm getting only 2.5~5 fps. Any ideas on how to change settings to get a better frame rate or am I just going to have to upgrade macs? Thanks.

Smithcraft
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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by Smithcraft »

Would you be so kind as to post a log so we can see what exactly is going on?

SC

tonic
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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by tonic »

djmeff22 wrote:Has anyone started encoding with the new AppleTV 3 preset. I have a late 2009 iMac with 3.06 ghz processor and 4 gb ram and I'm getting only 2.5~5 fps. Any ideas on how to change settings to get a better frame rate or am I just going to have to upgrade macs? Thanks.
Is that a Core 2 Duo? That's probably why. I have a late 2009 iMac i7 2.8Ghz and have been doing a bunch of these new ATV3 1080p encodes (from Blurays) and only average around 13-14fps. This is NOT using the "High Profile" setting either. All 8 cores (4 virtual) of the i7 show 100% utilization throughout the encoding process. I would expect the i7 to be at least 2x (4 actual cores) and it seems like it's about 2.5x as fast. Am I wrong here?

So did we decide if the "High Profile" setting was worth it? Too much time added to the encoding process? Smaller rips? Just wondering what the consensus is. Just bought a couple ATV3s and so I'm stocking up my iTunes library.

tonic
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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by tonic »

Yeah, not sure that I can handle the "High Profile" AppleTV3 setting. It took around 4hr40min to encode a 33GB Bluray Remux (almost 3 hour long movie) on an i7 with 16GB of RAM and SSD. Yowza!

Quality looks gorgeous on my 46" Samsung LCD. Compared the rip side-by-side with the original BluRay on my iMac and couldn't tell the difference....hard to do a side-by-side comparison on the TV though. I guess the only advantage I could see would be decreasing file size.

Smithcraft
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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by Smithcraft »

With my i5, it does HD at best at ~4 frames per second, so it's at least the time for me, if not triple the time.

SC

bsotak
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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by bsotak »

m4dm0nk3y wrote:
Katzenfan wrote:What exactly does these additional parameters?
--preset veryslow --tune film --ref 4 --bframes 3
compared with standard High Profile Preset?

When i chose High Profile Preset, in the advanced tab there are these parameters
b-adapt=2:rc-lookahead=50

So in your example, you are substituting these parameters with
--preset veryslow --tune film --ref 4 --bframes 3 --crf 22
right?

(as you can see, i am not familiar with such parameters, i have just used the options within the gui before)
No, these are x264 settings when it is used as a standalone command line program.

To get the same settings in Handrake:

1/ Choose the High Profile built in preset
2/ In the "Advanced" tab, set settings as follow:
Ref frames: 4 (if the output size is 1080p) or 9 (if the output size is 720p)
Max B-Frames: 3
CABAC: On
8x8 Transform: On
Weighted P-Frames: On
Pyramidal B-Frames : Normal
No DCT decimate: Off
Adaptive B-Frames: Optimal
Adaptive Direct Mode: Auto
Motion Estimation Method: UMH
Subpixel ME & Mode Decision: 10 QPRD in all frames
Motion Estimation Range: 24
Partition Type: All
Trellis: Always
Adaptive Quantization Strength: 1
Pyschovisual Rate Distorsion: 1
Pyschovisual Trellis: 0.15
Deblocking: -1/-1
Custom string: change "rc-lookahead=50" to "rc-lookahead=60"

With these settings, the h264 encoder (i.e x264) embedded within Handbrake will take MORE time to analyze the video stream, but it will make a MUCH better use of the bits, resulting in a MUCH better visual quality. Therefore, all those bits available @ RF20 are not needed, RF22 has enough bits for most if not all 1080p movies.
m4dm0nk3y, thank you so much for these settings. They definitely create a great picture with a smaller file size than just using the High Profile setting, which is absolutely perfect for my library. I do have a quick question for you. A couple of my Blu-Rays require subtitles (such as Life of Pi and The Da Vinci Code) that are part of a subtitle stream, and not hardcoded in the movie. Unfortunately the only way that I've found to get the PGS subs into the encode is to use the Handbrake Nightly. Since the nightlies have changed the encoding/advanced options, I can't just follow the easy instructions above to get the settings anymore. On the regular version (0.9.8) my advanced string looked like:

b-adapt=2:rc-lookahead=60:ref=4:direct=auto:me=umh:subq=10:merange=24:analyse=all:trellis=2:psy-rd=1.00,0.15:deblock=-1,-1

If I try to use the nightly and go from the High Profile setting, I get a couple of extra items, and no lookahead:

level=4.1:vbv-bufsize=78125:vbv-maxrate=62500:ref=4:b-adapt=2:direct=auto:me=umh:subq=10:merange=24:psy-rd=1.0,0.15:analyse=all:trellis=2:deblock=-1,-1

What I'm wondering is should I remove the extra settings and just use the line from the previous version of Handbrake? Or should I just add the lookahead=60 on the new line? Or maybe you've done some testing with the Nightly, and there are some better settings that we could use now. I really don't mind the long encodes, and I love the smaller file sizes. Please let me know, thanks!

m2m
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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by m2m »

Hi I am new to this forum... :)
m4dm0nk3y wrote:
Ref frames: 9 if the output size is 720 (as per H.264/MPEG4-AVC level 4.0 standard)
Max B-Frames: 3 (this is largely arguable since this is a constraint from the blu-ray standard which probably doesn't apply to the Apple TV 3)

Please experiment and share with everyone.
I just wanted to add that according to my tests the AppleTV3 (1st revision - Apple made a silent update for the ATV3 some time ago) and the iPhone5 can deal with:

Ref frames: 13 if the output size is 720 (as per H.264/MPEG4-AVC level 4.2 standard)
Max B-Frames: 16

Per default Handbreak 0.9.9 will create a level 4.2 file wich I can stream to my AppleTV3 without problems.
The iPhone 5 will accept the file after "downgrading" the level from 4.2 to 4.1 (via i.e. Subler) and also plays it fine.

I am encoding 720p (downscaling from BR1080p). Ref frames of 14 will lead to decoding issues on the AppleTV. 15 and 16 will not be accepted by the ATV anymore.

Increasing from 9 -> 13, I would estimate saves you (for a 720p) encode around 5MBs for the whole movie. 14-16 (which can't be played by the ATV anymore) saves you at best 1 additional MB on the whole movie.

m2m
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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by m2m »

Short update for the aTV3

Ref frames: 10

is better. With 13, 12, 11 you will get artifacts - even thouth rather rarely but you will get once in a while.

m2m
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Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:30 pm

Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by m2m »

And another update:

Ref frames: 15

Totally works with the aTV3 and iPhone 5 if you add the correct vbv-bufsize and vbv-maxrate values (vbv-bufsize=31250:vbv-maxrate=25000) and after "downgrading" the level from 5.0 to 4.1 (via i.e. Subler)

My current advanced settings are as follows - using an RF 23:

vbv-bufsize=31250:vbv-maxrate=25000:b-adapt=2:rc-lookahead=60:ref=15:bframes=16:direct=auto:me=umh:subq=10:merange=24:analyse=all:trellis=2:no-dct-decimate=1:nr=400

I am using dct-decimate=1 as in my experience it reduces banding (while slightly increasing the file-size).
I am using nr=400 which technically is reducing image quality as of noise reduction but I can see no visible difference and it highly decreases the file-size of the encode.

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