*** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Discuss encoding for devices and presets.
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HandBrake
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*** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by HandBrake » Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:41 pm

You have a couple of options:

For the New iPad
  • iPad - Up to 720p. This preset will still work great on the new iPad. It will produce up to 720p content and keep filesizes down and thus is more suited for the limited space on this device.
  • High Profile - Up to 1080p. It'll take a long time to encode, but that is the trade off you need to make to keep file sizes in check for the limited space of the iPad.
For the AppleTV3
  • Normal - Up to 1080p. This preset is much faster than High Profile, but can produce larger file sizes. This may cause problems for weak wireless connected devices. Quality may be slightly less than High Profile
  • High Profile - Up to 1080p. Encodes will take a long time, but the quality is excellent and filesizes will be more reasonable than the Normal preset.

eliehass
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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by eliehass » Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:52 pm

Does this mean that there will not be a specific preset made for the new iPad and the AppleTV 3 or is this an option to use until a new preset is made?

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s55
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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by s55 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:40 pm

Seems unlikely that new presets will be made, when the curent ones work fine.

omni
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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by omni » Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:30 pm

s55 wrote:Seems unlikely that new presets will be made, when the curent ones work fine.
While that may be true - you would be saving so much time out of everyone's life who is going to ask which preset to use and everyone who has to answer the question, over and over.

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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by Katzenfan » Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:41 pm

For ATV3:
What is the diffence between the recommended High Profile and the ATV2 Preset with 1080p?

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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by mac_man_ad » Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:43 pm

ATV2 profile puts some limits on some advanced settings that don't matter so much on ATV3. HP uses a more well-rounded set of advanced options as it is meant for devices fully supporting the H.264 High Profile spec, which the ATV2 was not quite up to.

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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by Scott R » Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:52 pm

I probably won't have time to test this out for several days, but I wouldn't be surprised if High Profile 1080p will also *now* work with the ATV2 running the latest version of the OS. I already had success playing full-bitrate Blu-ray rips on the ATV2 via XBMC, but the stock OS/player stuttered. Since the recent OS upgrade, it looks like Apple improved performance of the stock player. It will still output at only 720p, but it might be able to play these High Profile 1080p files smoothly.

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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by kagharaht » Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:20 pm

Scott R wrote:I probably won't have time to test this out for several days, but I wouldn't be surprised if High Profile 1080p will also *now* work with the ATV2 running the latest version of the OS. I already had success playing full-bitrate Blu-ray rips on the ATV2 via XBMC, but the stock OS/player stuttered. Since the recent OS upgrade, it looks like Apple improved performance of the stock player. It will still output at only 720p, but it might be able to play these High Profile 1080p files smoothly.
That's a good point. I have 2 ATV2 which I'm keeping for my 42" and 32" 1080p capable LCD. The ATV3 is for my 60". So that would be nice if HProfile will now work on ATV2.

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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by Rodeo » Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:45 pm

mac_man_ad wrote:ATV2 profile puts some limits on some advanced settings that don't matter so much on ATV3. HP uses a more well-rounded set of advanced options as it is meant for devices fully supporting the H.264 High Profile spec, which the ATV2 was not quite up to.
Not really. High Profile uses a better, but slower, adaptive B-frame placement decision algorithm, and a slightly longer lookahead. It should result in slightly smaller files, but that's all.

Also, the High Profile preset enables decomb and detelecine (which are not necessary for Blu-ray movies).

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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by rollin_eng » Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:53 pm

Scott R wrote:I probably won't have time to test this out for several days, but I wouldn't be surprised if High Profile 1080p will also *now* work with the ATV2 running the latest version of the OS. I already had success playing full-bitrate Blu-ray rips on the ATV2 via XBMC, but the stock OS/player stuttered. Since the recent OS upgrade, it looks like Apple improved performance of the stock player. It will still output at only 720p, but it might be able to play these High Profile 1080p files smoothly.
I have successfully watched 2 full-bitrate blu ray rips on my atv2 with the latest update with zero stuttering so im pretty confident the atv3 will manage it.

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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by Katzenfan » Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:33 pm

Rodeo wrote:
mac_man_ad wrote:ATV2 profile puts some limits on some advanced settings that don't matter so much on ATV3. HP uses a more well-rounded set of advanced options as it is meant for devices fully supporting the H.264 High Profile spec, which the ATV2 was not quite up to.
Not really. High Profile uses a better, but slower, adaptive B-frame placement decision algorithm, and a slightly longer lookahead. It should result in slightly smaller files, but that's all.

Also, the High Profile preset enables decomb and detelecine (which are not necessary for Blu-ray movies).
So i guess, High Profile without decomb and without detelecine will be the best choice for blu-rays and 1080p. Which quality setting value would you recommend? I would chose 19 (Standard seems to be 20).

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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by nightstrm » Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:10 pm

Katzenfan wrote:
Rodeo wrote:
mac_man_ad wrote:ATV2 profile puts some limits on some advanced settings that don't matter so much on ATV3. HP uses a more well-rounded set of advanced options as it is meant for devices fully supporting the H.264 High Profile spec, which the ATV2 was not quite up to.
Not really. High Profile uses a better, but slower, adaptive B-frame placement decision algorithm, and a slightly longer lookahead. It should result in slightly smaller files, but that's all.

Also, the High Profile preset enables decomb and detelecine (which are not necessary for Blu-ray movies).
So i guess, High Profile without decomb and without detelecine will be the best choice for blu-rays and 1080p. Which quality setting value would you recommend? I would chose 19 (Standard seems to be 20).
Personally, I use 20 for all sources. Most people would recommend 20 or higher for HD sources... I wouldn't go any lower than 19.

Ripping Jack
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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by Ripping Jack » Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:05 am

omni wrote:
s55 wrote:Seems unlikely that new presets will be made, when the curent ones work fine.
While that may be true - you would be saving so much time out of everyone's life who is going to ask which preset to use and everyone who has to answer the question, over and over.
Maybe they can just rename it "High Profile (Best for ATV3)"

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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by GregiBoy » Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:39 am

Why do that when Handbrake is not only used by Apple users?

Ripping Jack
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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by Ripping Jack » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:20 am

GregiBoy wrote:Why do that when Handbrake is not only used by Apple users?
Okay, how about in the Device presets field they add a note: "ATV 3 - use High Profile (below)"

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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by Obioban » Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:05 pm

GregiBoy wrote:Why do that when Handbrake is not only used by Apple users?
Because the majority of the users are Apple users :P

Even if it's an exact duplicate of the High profile, still makes sense to me to have a ATV3 preset under devices. Otherwise people will have this question ALL the time.

dysphasi
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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by dysphasi » Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:18 pm

I'm finding the 'normal' setting is actually producing smaller files than the high profile. Isn't this the wrong way around? It's also considerably quicker.

One point of note, 'normal' doesn't produce useable files until I tick the box for 'Large File Size'

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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by AZCASAK » Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:12 pm

I am a novice so please bare with me...

I have done 3 1080p encodes using HB and all have seemed to work fine other than the amount of time they are taking. I have used a "hybrid" between the ATV2 and High Profile presets. I did this because I noticed that there were differences in the Framerate and Video Quality sttings between the two. So I chose the the HP preset then modified Framerate and VQ to match the ATV presets.

If im understanding the jist of this thred correctly, it sounds like I can simply select the High Profile preset and not make any changes. Is this correct?

Also, is there a way to eliminate the black bars without comprimising video quality?

Thanks in advance.

A

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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by nicolasonline » Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:12 pm

So should we uncheck 'decomb' and 'detelecine'. Does it enhance quality or just save encoding time?

Thanks

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Rodeo
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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by Rodeo » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:43 pm

nicolasonline wrote:So should we uncheck 'decomb' and 'detelecine'. Does it enhance quality or just save encoding time?
Save encoding time only. But if your source doesn't need it (like Blu-rays and even most movie DVDs), there's little point it keeping it enabled just for fun.

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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by aj1234 » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:31 pm

I too was successful with the High Profile template, but I have a few questions.

My source is full 1080i (not 1080p), I use Decomb (experimenting between Default or Fast). My problem is that my 1920x1080 source can not be transcoded to 1920x1080 no matter what I do. "Strict" cuts things off, "Loose" is too big, cropping "Loose" is smaller than 1920x1080, "None" yields a file that has a height of 1088, not 1080.

The Ipad 3 won't take 1088, it must be 1080 height max. Is there no way to take a 1920x1080 source file and keep these exact dimentions? I need to reduce the bandwidth (and transcode from ACVHD to M4V).

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Rodeo
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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by Rodeo » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:58 pm

Set cropping to 0/0/0/0.

Obioban
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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by Obioban » Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:20 am

So, I encoded a couple of files using "High" today. The results look beautiful, but the files are HUGE!

I was fooling with "dodgeball", starting with a BD rip.

"High" left alone made a 9.88 gb file
"High" with "large file size" unchecked made a 8.55 gb file
Drop it to 720p and I get a 1.87 gb file.

Now... most iTMS 1080p files are ~3gb, or ~25-30% larger than their 720p brethren. I'm fully aware that the quality of the file isn't quite as good as what I've created. That said... I can't see the difference, at least on my 60" LG with my eyes.

9.88 isn't crushing by itself, but I'm trying to build a digital movie library. I have ~450 BDs, so that's 4.5 tb right off the bat-- and that's a LOT of space!

Is there any way to get our 1080p files closer to the size of apples (~3gb per movie) without totally giving up on quality? I certainly don't want to encode them in such a manner that I regret it down the road.... but the current settings just take too much space :(

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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by dysphasi » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:57 am

Obioban wrote:So, I encoded a couple of files using "High" today. The results look beautiful, but the files are HUGE!
.........
Is there any way to get our 1080p files closer to the size of apples (~3gb per movie) without totally giving up on quality?
As I said in my previous post, strangely I get smaller files with normal vs high. The 'High' profile will routinely give files of 8/9GB+, normal is in the realms of 4ishGB on average.

The only further option I selected for the normal profile was the large file size box, otherwise I left the settings as-is.

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Re: *** AppleTV 3 and the New iPad (Presets) ***

Post by Obioban » Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:44 am

dysphasi wrote:
Obioban wrote:So, I encoded a couple of files using "High" today. The results look beautiful, but the files are HUGE!
.........
Is there any way to get our 1080p files closer to the size of apples (~3gb per movie) without totally giving up on quality?
As I said in my previous post, strangely I get smaller files with normal vs high. The 'High' profile will routinely give files of 8/9GB+, normal is in the realms of 4ishGB on average.

The only further option I selected for the normal profile was the large file size box, otherwise I left the settings as-is.
Yes... but I believe the goal of "Normal" is shorter encode times. I don't mind longer encode times, but I would like smaller files...

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