Jittery playback on ATV

[exodar]

I would be totally interested in what SPECIFIC settings you used that you are getting NO JITTER with. I have been trying to troubleshoot this problem for over a week now and the only thing I haven't tried is hooking up my AppleTV via ethernet to my iMac that is hosting the videos. Currently I am using the latest SVN of Handbrake that has the new GUI modifications and I select the HB-AppleTV preset and up the bitrate to 3500 to try and get the best possible video quality I can. But every time I attempt to stream one of these over my 802.11g I get video jitters. I encoded one last night leaving the bitrate at 2500 and it doesn't jitter, but the quality is noticeably bad!

Any ideas other than eliminating wireless that may help my woes?

[BucksSaddler]

I would be totally interested in what SPECIFIC settings you used that you are getting NO JITTER with. I have been trying to troubleshoot this problem for over a week now and the only thing I haven't tried is hooking up my AppleTV via ethernet to my iMac that is hosting the videos. Currently I am using the latest SVN of Handbrake that has the new GUI modifications and I select the HB-AppleTV preset and up the bitrate to 3500 to try and get the best possible video quality I can. But every time I attempt to stream one of these over my 802.11g I get video jitters. I encoded one last night leaving the bitrate at 2500 and it doesn't jitter, but the quality is noticeably bad!

Any ideas other than eliminating wireless that may help my woes?

Well, i think i've mentioned it before (sorry if i'm boring people) but i have tried everything including hard wiring my aTV to my Mac Pro, using all of Cav's settings, upgrading from a G to N Wireless and no matter what, the video jitters every single time when streaming. As soon as it's synced its OK.
Turn off Cabac and the jitters go away completly when streaming. I can pause, fast forward, rewind, skip to the next chapter all with no problems with Cabac off. I've bumped my rate up to 3000 and all is fine.
I'm also using the latest SVN and would just like to add what a great job it is. Cheers guys.

[exodar]

I am not at home where I can look at my interface and see, but what is the Cabac option intended to do?

[Cavalicious]

I would be totally interested in what SPECIFIC settings you used that you are getting NO JITTER with. I have been trying to troubleshoot this problem for over a week now and the only thing I haven't tried is hooking up my AppleTV via ethernet to my iMac that is hosting the videos. Currently I am using the latest SVN of Handbrake that has the new GUI modifications and I select the HB-AppleTV preset and up the bitrate to 3500 to try and get the best possible video quality I can. But every time I attempt to stream one of these over my 802.11g I get video jitters. I encoded one last night leaving the bitrate at 2500 and it doesn't jitter, but the quality is noticeably bad!

Any ideas other than eliminating wireless that may help my woes?

One, you can sync and not stream the video in order to watch a Jitter-free encode. Or, as a work-a-round, put cabac=0 in your Advance Settings (poorer quality if you ask some).

My belief is, be it the CPU or whatever in the AppleTV, can't properly handle the incoming stream at the same time decoding the codec. Hence the Jitter. Being that an encode with cabac off is "easier" to decode (for the AppleTV) there is a lot less (if any) Jitter. Of course the drawback in quality

[exodar]

I just remembered I can SSH and VNC to my Mac at home Just moused over the CABAC option and it says it is to increase quality for a given bitrate, but specifically says that the AppleTV will struggle and to leave it off for it! Interesting since the AppleTV preset has it checked. I really find all of the x.264 options confusing to say the least. I welcome them if they improve quality or make Handbrake operate better in some fashion, but they add a lot of variables to the whole encoding process and trying to find your best settings.

Such is life I guess.

[dynaflash]

Interesting since the AppleTV preset has it checked. I really find all of the x.264 options confusing to say the least.

As we've said, the current public AppleTV preset was release before we realized that Apple had changed the atv's cabac specification right before they released it. It was too late when we finally realized it.

[Adamcarter]

Hi i encoded a 155 min movie with these settings
ABR 3000
deinterlace, anamorphic and chapter markers
1 pass
bframes=6:ref=3:b-rdo=1:direct=auto:subme=7:trellis=0:analyse=p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,p4x4:me=umh:no-dct-decimate=1:bime=1:weightb=0:mixed-refs=1:no-fast-pskip=1:cabac=1

3.43 GB file.

By no means perfect.

a 3.43 GB XVID for that movie would be pristine.
I think there has to be some extra options that can reduce the file size a lil more and still keep the quality. maybe 2 pass, but everybody says that increases the jitter.


A goal I would like to see

Transparent quality from the dvd
Smallest file size possible, while preserving archival quality.
jitter free
atv/quicktime compatible.

what should I add to my settings above to accomplish this?
Encoding time is not high on my priority.

what I have noticed regardless of settings is again the really rough blocking. Specially around Gaussian blurs around text, and tone changes in skin.

I don't mean to say xvid is better, but it's older tech. And at the moment I think its outperforming. h.264 looks too sharp, I think I wouldn't mind a lil blur to remove some of the aliasing around text, and skin tones etc.


[/list][/quote]

[jbrjake]

You had, of course, verified that what you're seeing is caused by x264 and not the deinterlacer, before claiming it would look pristine in xvid, right ...?

[Adamcarter]

I could do it without deinterlacing. It has been my understanding and I could be wrong that deinterlacing is a good thing. Unless handbrake does a [Censored] job, i read a post, about HB using ffmpeg's quick and dirty deinteralcing. What would you suggest?

The only way I can describe what I see, is to pretend you have an army of invisible ants, crawling across the screen, and the light being emitted throught hem is bent and does not let me see the ants but the distortion in light as it passes through them.,

not sure if that makes any sense, but the way I equate it is the pictures looks like its alive.

Do you think deinterlacing has something to do with it?

still regardless of deinterlacing my file size is huge, for XVID at 1500KBPS dvdrip so far has not been matched by any of my h.264's at higher bitrates.

So is this a consensus deinterlace off=better picture?

Also I noticed something might be related to jitter.

If you have a tv show originally filmed in PAL UK shows like brittish office, coupling etc. but sold to the USA region 1 and it has been encoded from 25 fps PAL to 24 fps (23.97) for NTSC your dvd player then bumps it up to 29.97 and it plays smooth. So encoding at 29.97 instead of the reported 23.97 also plays smoother. than encoding it at 23.97

Spooks (MI-5 ) in the states is a good example when trying to rip season 4 there was a long pan in the beginning of an episode. I wouldnt say it stutterd per se but it didn't pan smoothly. but it played the smoothest when encoded at 29.97 then it did at native 23.97 or whatever option it is.

[jbrjake]

It has been my understanding and I could be wrong that deinterlacing is a good thing.

Is it so incredibly difficult to read documentation before turning to the forum for spoon feeding?

Here comes the airplane...

The result looks just plain nasty, so be sure to only deinterlace when you have to. Sometimes people will say it's easier to just always leave the box checked, that it's too much trouble to check each video for interlacing. But when you deinterlace progressive content, the result will be stair-stepping: jagged lines.

[Adamcarter]

Apologize for redundancy.

[Cavalicious]

Here is what I'm using (Quality over Jitter):

Code: Select all

./HandBrakeCLI -i /Volumes/Encode/THE_LAST_SAMURAI_DISC_1/  -o /Volumes/New\ Download/DVD_VIDEO.m4v  -T --deinterlace="1" -m -p  -2 -e x264 -b 3000  -r 23.976  -E facc  -B 160 -R 44.1 -6 6ch -v -x keyint=300:keyint-min=30:bframes=6:ref=3:mixed-refs=1:subq=5:me=umh:no-fast-pskip=1:trellis=2

[Adamcarter]

Code: Select all

./HandBrakeCLI -i /Volumes/Encode/THE_LAST_SAMURAI_DISC_1/  -o /Volumes/New\ Download/DVD_VIDEO.m4v  -T --deinterlace="1" -m -p  -2 -e x264 -b 3000  -r 23.976  -E facc  -B 160 -R 44.1 -6 6ch -v -x keyint=300:keyint-min=30:bframes=6:ref=3:mixed-refs=1:subq=5:me=umh:no-fast-pskip=1:trellis=2

what happens when we bump up a few options
subme=7,
is there anything higher than trellis 2?
ref=6

[Cavalicious]

Here's some reading:

x264 Options Explained

There are 8 Pages that explain what some of the options are for.

Another good read

Between these two, this is why I had chosen the values I did.

[powerbook911]

Help! ha-ha. I was going to start a new thread, but I saw this one. Hope someone can help.

My Apple TV arrived today. For the past couple years, I've been encoding some racing I watch in H264 with handbrake and then put the files onto dvds just to archive them permanently.

Now I have my Apple TV. So the latest encode I did this past weekend I put into iTunes. I went ahead *fully synced* the video, not stream.

It is jittery! Not fun to watch. This was done from a DVD+RW in my DVD recorder and encoded with Handbrake 2500kbps, de-interlace, main profile. I noticed my Powerbook also displays the video jittery. My iMac for the most part makes it look smooth, if if I look closely I see it a little bit on here too.

Finally ,I even looked at another travel show video I had encoded at about 1100kbps, and I noticed jittery with it too just not as much, since it's talking heads, but there no doubt.

iTunes videos, HD podcasts, and divx files I converted h264 with visual hub did not have this problem.

What do I do? Is there any fix? I feel sad that all my encodes for the past year + are jittery evidently.

Appreciate the help. Thanks.

[Adamcarter]

It has been my understanding and I could be wrong that deinterlacing is a good thing.

Is it so incredibly difficult to read documentation before turning to the forum for spoon feeding?

Here comes the airplane...

The result looks just plain nasty, so be sure to only deinterlace when you have to. Sometimes people will say it's easier to just always leave the box checked, that it's too much trouble to check each video for interlacing. But when you deinterlace progressive content, the result will be stair-stepping: jagged lines.

Hmm, ok, so my movie needs serious deinterlacing. what i noticed. Without deinterlacing backgrounds were smoother. moving options look like crap. with deinterlacing backgrounds look like they are moving, like crawling. where as moving subjects look great.

When using VLC player to deinterlace looks great mean, or bob or any of them not sure which is the best but will have to take a look see. Quicktime and Appletv do not have deinterlace Sooooo i think i will need to have it done. Is it the HB's use of FFMPEG's deinterlacer that sucks? ANy chance of implementing the ones used by VLC? This obviously might need to go into another thread, but just wanted to thank you guys for helping me through this.

3.43 GB file for 155 min movie. Still seem excessive to mimic original.

[Cavalicious]

I noticed my Powerbook also displays the video jittery. My iMac for the most part makes it look smooth, if if I look closely I see it a little bit on here too.

Finally ,I even looked at another travel show video I had encoded at about 1100kbps, and I noticed jittery with it too just not as much, since it's talking heads, but there no doubt.

This leads me to believe you are having a different issue, due to the fact that your Macs are also playing the video with Jitter. I do believe in all of our other cases, the video plays fine on our computers.

I'm really stumped by the fact that an 1100kbps encode shows jitter. That just doesn't make sense. What settings were you using?

[Cavalicious]

Hmm, ok, so my movie needs serious deinterlacing. what i noticed. Without deinterlacing backgrounds were smoother. moving options look like crap. with deinterlacing backgrounds look like they are moving, like crawling. where as moving subjects look great.

When using VLC player to deinterlace looks great mean, or bob or any of them not sure which is the best but will have to take a look see. Quicktime and Appletv do not have deinterlace Sooooo i think i will need to have it done. Is it the HB's use of FFMPEG's deinterlacer that sucks? ANy chance of implementing the ones used by VLC? This obviously might need to go into another thread, but just wanted to thank you guys for helping me through this.

3.43 GB file for 155 min movie. Still seem excessive to mimic original.

Download the last SVN to handle you "deinterlacing" concerns. The syntax I gave you utilized one of the new deinterlace "features."

3.4gb for a 2.5hr movie...sounds right. If you notice in the syntax, I was encoding Last Samurai...its 154 minutes and over 3gbs.

[powerbook911]

I noticed my Powerbook also displays the video jittery. My iMac for the most part makes it look smooth, if if I look closely I see it a little bit on here too.

Finally ,I even looked at another travel show video I had encoded at about 1100kbps, and I noticed jittery with it too just not as much, since it's talking heads, but there no doubt.

This leads me to believe you are having a different issue, due to the fact that your Macs are also playing the video with Jitter. I do believe in all of our other cases, the video plays fine on our computers.

I'm really stumped by the fact that an 1100kbps encode shows jitter. That just doesn't make sense. What settings were you using?

Yeah it's really upsetting me that everything I've ever encoded with Handbrake has the jitters. You really notice bad on the racing constantly, since you see the cars jitter, and then whenever there are "sweeping" camera movements like at concerts. My powerbook and apple tv do it just as bad, but my iMac intel does it a *little* less. I think it's also that on my iMac the display is not so big so u don't notice as much too.

On my settings, I usually click "Apple TV," and then sometimes I will just lower the bitrate a little. I also use deinterlace, and 2-pass encoding. Could 2-pass encoding cause the problem?

What is that one setting I could try to make it stop? I'm really mad at myself. Thankfully some of my stuff I have in divx too (different TV channel covering it), so at least I could watch it on that someday, when I want to look back.

[Cavalicious]

Like I stated earlier, you can add cabac=0 to your advance settings.

[powerbook911]

Like I stated earlier, you can add cabac=0 to your advance settings.

Is that all you type in? cabac=0 ? Thanks.

[powerbook911]

I used cabac=0 , and the problem is still there. What could it be? Or do I need to use higher bit rate like 3000-4000?

[powerbook911]

More testing: I found a video that again was ripped from a DVD out of my set-top DVD recorder, but from a DVD-R this time, and on it there really isn't any jittering, even during the long distance panning shots.

Could it be the issue is caused since I normally use DVD+RW. I use +RW cause after I get it converted to H264 I put the disk back in the DVD recorder and reuse it. Are there known handbrake issues with DVD+RW?

Thanks for the help. I wonder what my solution might be? I'd hate to have to use non-rewritable and just throw the discs away each time .

[Anamonde]

Code: Select all

./HandBrakeCLI -i /Volumes/Encode/THE_LAST_SAMURAI_DISC_1/  -o /Volumes/New\ Download/DVD_VIDEO.m4v  -T --deinterlace="1" -m -p  -2 -e x264 -b 3000  -r 23.976  -E facc  -B 160 -R 44.1 -6 6ch -v -x keyint=300:keyint-min=30:bframes=6:ref=3:mixed-refs=1:subq=5:me=umh:no-fast-pskip=1:trellis=2

Not familiar with cmdline. Are you doing two pass? (-p -2)

[Cavalicious]

Code: Select all

./HandBrakeCLI -i /Volumes/Encode/THE_LAST_SAMURAI_DISC_1/  -o /Volumes/New\ Download/DVD_VIDEO.m4v  -T --deinterlace="1" -m -p  -2 -e x264 -b 3000  -r 23.976  -E facc  -B 160 -R 44.1 -6 6ch -v -x keyint=300:keyint-min=30:bframes=6:ref=3:mixed-refs=1:subq=5:me=umh:no-fast-pskip=1:trellis=2

Not familiar with cmdline. Are you doing two pass? (-p -2)

Yes, I'm using 2-Passes. You can do a ./HandBrakeCLI -h for a description of all options.