Apple TV support would be cool

Discuss encoding for devices and presets.
Forum rules
An Activity Log is required for support requests. Please read How-to get an activity log? for details on how and why this should be provided.
Post Reply
jbrjake
Veteran User
Posts: 4805
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:38 am

Apple TV support would be cool

Post by jbrjake » Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:18 pm

Here are the specs from http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html :
Video formats supported: H.264 and protected H.264 (from iTunes Store): 640 by 480, 30 fps, LC version of Baseline Profile; 320 by 240, 30 fps, Baseline profile up to Level 1.3; 1280 by 720, 24 fps, Progressive Main Profile. MPEG-4: 640 by 480, 30 fps, Simple Profile

golias
Regular User
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:29 pm

Post by golias » Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:29 pm

AppleTV is driven by iTunes, so anything Quicktime can play, I'm sure AppleTV will work with it.

That includes most things you make with HB, provided you don't use AC-3 pass-through in an AVI or anything like that.

In fact, if you are already using the newer iPod settings, you're in fine shape.

Not that I care much. I've got a Mac connected to my projector already. Why would I spend $300 for something that won't let me play all the files I have that QuickTime can't handle?

dynaflash
Veteran User
Posts: 3820
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:19 pm

Re: Apple TV support would be cool

Post by dynaflash » Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:45 pm

jbrjake wrote:Here are the specs from http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html :
Video formats supported: H.264 and protected H.264 (from iTunes Store): 640 by 480, 30 fps, LC version of Baseline Profile; 320 by 240, 30 fps, Baseline profile up to Level 1.3; 1280 by 720, 24 fps, Progressive Main Profile. MPEG-4: 640 by 480, 30 fps, Simple Profile
Sorry jbrjake, looks like I double posted on you. I posted the same in Dev Forum:
http://handbrake.dynalias.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=103

Didnt realize you already had it here.

Only one I see we dont have is H.264 1280 x 720 Progressive Main Profile. Do you know anything about this one? Why do I think you are already on it!!

jbrjake
Veteran User
Posts: 4805
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:38 am

Post by jbrjake » Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:02 pm

golias wrote:In fact, if you are already using the newer iPod settings, you're in fine shape.
Yes, I suppose I would be set if I wanted to watch base-line downscaled video on my 1080p monitor.
dynaflash wrote:Only one I see we dont have is H.264 1280 x 720 Progressive Main Profile. Do you know anything about this one? Why do I think you are already on it!!
Exactly...this is where the questions are. Is Progressive Main Profile the same as regular main profile, or does it turn some other features on or off? And what level is it? 3.1 or 3.2? 4? Until it's out it'll be hard to know, and I don't plan on buying one of these things (for the reason golias mentioned above).

golias
Regular User
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:29 pm

Post by golias » Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:34 pm

jbrjake wrote:
golias wrote:In fact, if you are already using the newer iPod settings, you're in fine shape.
Yes, I suppose I would be set if I wanted to watch base-line downscaled video on my 1080p monitor.
Dude, if you are ripping from a DVD, the source is 480p (at best) anyway. Ripping to a bigger file size doesn't magically make the image a higher resolution.

jbrjake
Veteran User
Posts: 4805
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:38 am

Post by jbrjake » Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:47 pm

golias wrote:
jbrjake wrote:Yes, I suppose I would be set if I wanted to watch base-line downscaled video on my 1080p monitor.
Dude, if you are ripping from a DVD, the source is 480p (at best) anyway. Ripping to a bigger file size doesn't magically make the image a higher resolution.
I know (only NTSC) DVDs are a maximum of 480p.

What you suggested above, though, was to use settings for the newer iPod. That's not 480p. That's a maximum widescreen resolution of 640*360 (230,400 sq. pixels) with CABAC turned off. An anamorphic NTSC DVD with a 1.78:1 AR displays at about 854*480 (409,920 sq. pixels) resolution and is stored in 720*480. So no "magic" is required to make the image a higher resolution than what you're suggesting I use. All I have to do is not downscale my video first.

If I'm already going to be scaling up to HDTV rez at playback, why would I want to start off by throwing away a third to a half of my source's pixels? Doesn't it make more sense to magnify 5 or 6 times, not 9 times?

I suppose you might have meant "If you're using the encoder drop-down in HB for the newer iPod but with a larger resolution than iTunes will accept, you're in fine shape," but I figured that made no sense, since why would someone have been encoding Baseline if he or she wasn't putting it on an iPod? Plus, per the top of this thread, the Apple TV supports Main profile. Why turn cabac off and limit myself to one reference frame?

When I started this thread to request @TV support, I didn't mean shoving low quality video at it. That's like saying HB 0.7.1 already supports the iPod 5.5G because you can still play older baseline 1.3 video on it. The point is, as of now we don't know what if anything we have to change for it. It could just be plain main profile level 3.1 without MBAFF. But after what Apple did with the iPod 5.5G, it's quite possible it will have some other features turned off or require a different uuid atom than the iPod for its main profile settings.

dynaflash
Veteran User
Posts: 3820
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:19 pm

Post by dynaflash » Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:50 pm

I might have to get me one of these for "development purposes" :)

golias
Regular User
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:29 pm

Post by golias » Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:34 pm

jbrjake wrote:
golias wrote:
jbrjake wrote:Yes, I suppose I would be set if I wanted to watch base-line downscaled video on my 1080p monitor.
Dude, if you are ripping from a DVD, the source is 480p (at best) anyway. Ripping to a bigger file size doesn't magically make the image a higher resolution.
I know (only NTSC) DVDs are a maximum of 480p.

What you suggested above, though, was to use settings for the newer iPod. That's not 480p. That's a maximum widescreen resolution of 640*360 (230,400 sq. pixels) with CABAC turned off. An anamorphic NTSC DVD with a 1.78:1 AR displays at about 854*480 (409,920 sq. pixels) resolution and is stored in 720*480. So no "magic" is required to make the image a higher resolution than what you're suggesting I use. All I have to do is not downscale my video first.

If I'm already going to be scaling up to HDTV rez at playback, why would I want to start off by throwing away a third to a half of my source's pixels? Doesn't it make more sense to magnify 5 or 6 times, not 9 times?

I suppose you might have meant "If you're using the encoder drop-down in HB for the newer iPod but with a larger resolution than iTunes will accept, you're in fine shape," but I figured that made no sense, since why would someone have been encoding Baseline if he or she wasn't putting it on an iPod? Plus, per the top of this thread, the Apple TV supports Main profile. Why turn cabac off and limit myself to one reference frame?

When I started this thread to request @TV support, I didn't mean shoving low quality video at it. That's like saying HB 0.7.1 already supports the iPod 5.5G because you can still play older baseline 1.3 video on it. The point is, as of now we don't know what if anything we have to change for it. It could just be plain main profile level 3.1 without MBAFF. But after what Apple did with the iPod 5.5G, it's quite possible it will have some other features turned off or require a different uuid atom than the iPod for its main profile settings.
Actually, I use HB almost exclusively for TV shows on DVD, the majority of which are still in 4:3, so 480 vertical lines of resolution is pretty much perfect.

All my movies are still VIDEO_TS files right now.

It's just a case of us using HB for different purposes.

leon
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:58 pm

Post by leon » Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:24 am

Does anyone know for sure that the Apple TV will play anything the source Mac can play?

I suspect it might actually need some of the optional quick-time plugins / codecs loaded locally and I don't believe that Apple is going to allow folks to install anything on it.

We could be in for a bit of a hick-up if not sticking to what works (in terms of file-formats + codecs) with QT out of the box or what works with an iPod, but perhaps at higher rez.

baggss
Moderator
Posts: 886
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:21 am

Post by baggss » Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:34 am

Nope. Until someone gets their hands on one we won't know for sure.

Glassman
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:33 am

Post by Glassman » Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:36 am

Actually, you can test now. All Apple TV is is a mini cumputer that runs a glorified version of Front Row on it with built in WiFi and a bunch of jacks on the back. So, if it will run in Front Row, it will run on Apple TV.

baggss
Moderator
Posts: 886
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:21 am

Post by baggss » Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:59 am

Actually, you assume that's what it is. Until is ships, anything is possible.

danmanix
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:01 am

Post by danmanix » Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:24 pm

Ill warrant the 'Progressive' stands for progressive scan. What level of Main it will playback is what I wanna know. Im hanging on converting my DVD collection en masse for iTV until I know - then it's goodbye to DVDs forever, expecially now it's easy to preserve the multichannel audio.

rachel
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:34 pm

Post by rachel » Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:35 pm

golias wrote:
jbrjake wrote:
golias wrote:In fact, if you are already using the newer iPod settings, you're in fine shape.
Yes, I suppose I would be set if I wanted to watch base-line downscaled video on my 1080p monitor.
Dude, if you are ripping from a DVD, the source is 480p (at best) anyway. Ripping to a bigger file size doesn't magically make the image a higher resolution.
Not in PAL. :-)

rawdalain
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:22 pm

Clean formatting for iTV playback is a better description

Post by rawdalain » Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:32 pm

I think it's fairly obvious that what is desired here is single click ripping into a format that will preserve as much as possible and still play back through the iTV. For my personal use, what I would like to see is the AC3 or DTS soundtrack preserved (or converted, depending on which is supported for playback on the iTV) along with a straight forward option for setting a data rate for the video stream (presumably H.264) and preserving the aspect ratio as it was. The more fiddling required beyond choosing a data rate that meets a user's video quality concerns, the worse.

The obvious goal for anyone intending to use the iTV is to rip their entire DVD collection and have it available through the iTV's front row interface. That almost certainly means that it has to be a video format that iTunes will accept. Since for most of us that is going to be a heck of a lot of ripping, the more painless and brain dead the process, the better.

The scaling issue is mostly irrelevant since any recent receiver has a dedicated hardware scaling chip anyway.

rawdalain
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:22 pm

Replying to myself...

Post by rawdalain » Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:19 pm

I should have just noted the obvious, the latest itunes patch includes a tweak to the default export settings in quicktime, so now there is an "export for iTV" option. There are options for DVD resolution as well as 720p, so I'd say handbrake just needs to offer a single click duplication of the output setting from that quicktime export option and we'll be golden.

dynaflash
Veteran User
Posts: 3820
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:19 pm

Post by dynaflash » Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:21 pm

Maybe, but there is one word. "uuid atom" that might make things a bit less clear. The iPod preset required one that had to be reverse engineered.

Trust us. Best to wait until we get one to work with.

Post Reply