iTunes HD TV Shows?

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Heymbit
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iTunes HD TV Shows?

Post by Heymbit »

Seeing how now Apple has support for what they call HD for TV Shows, is there anyway a future handbrake release will allow for dvd to iTunes HD? That'd be awesome.

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JohnAStebbins
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Re: iTunes HD TV Shows?

Post by JohnAStebbins »

Well, dvd's aren't hi-def. And upscaling them would be a silly waste of bandwidth. So, no.

remyhelsinki
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Re: iTunes HD TV Shows?

Post by remyhelsinki »

JohnAStebbins wrote:Well, dvd's aren't hi-def. And upscaling them would be a silly waste of bandwidth. So, no.
I agree that the idea of creating a new file by upscaling should never be practiced, but the iTunes HD tv shows really aren't what most would call HD.

I just downloaded an HD episode of "The Office" (free for a limited time if you want to catch it), and this is the info I get on it:

Kind: Protected MPEG-4 Video File
Size: 501.4 MB
Bit Rate: 125 kbps
Profile: Low Complexity
Channels: Stereo
Total Bit Rate: 1662 kbps
Video Dimensions: 853x480
Video Codec: H.264


853x480? That is not HD, but rather what I would get doing an full anamorphic encode from a dvd. So technically you could make a preset that has the specs of an "iTunes HD TV show" from a dvd. Now there is a chance that I downloaded the standard version as trying to download from the HD page or the Standard page is giving me the same size file which I think is odd, so if anyone cares to provide more information on this I'd be interested in hearing it.

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JohnAStebbins
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Re: iTunes HD TV Shows?

Post by JohnAStebbins »

Admittedly, I'm no itunes expert. But everything I've read says itunes HD is 720p.

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Ritsuka
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Re: iTunes HD TV Shows?

Post by Ritsuka »

iTunes automatically downloads two version when you buy an hd tv show: an hd version 720p (1280x720) and another standard definition (720x480 anamorphic, for iPod and iPhone).

You are looking at the wrong one :P

nightstrm
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Re: iTunes HD TV Shows?

Post by nightstrm »

Ritsuka wrote:iTunes automatically downloads two version when you buy an hd tv show: an hd version 720p (1280x720) and another standard definition (720x480 anamorphic, for iPod and iPhone).

You are looking at the wrong one :P
Bingo, I've got both and can confirm they are 1280x720... can't remember the bitrate off the top of my head though.

erise
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Re: iTunes HD TV Shows?

Post by erise »

remyhelsinki wrote:853x480? That is not HD, but rather what I would get doing an full anamorphic encode from a dvd. So technically you could make a preset that has the specs of an "iTunes HD TV show" from a dvd. Now there is a chance that I downloaded the standard version as trying to download from the HD page or the Standard page is giving me the same size file which I think is odd, so if anyone cares to provide more information on this I'd be interested in hearing it.
I had the same problem. It seems to be a bug in iTunes where SD shows are downloaded instead of HD if you have the Shopping Cart turned on. Switch to One-Click Shopping and try again... you'll get both the SD (853x480) and HD (1280x720) versions.

erise
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Re: iTunes HD TV Shows?

Post by erise »

Ritsuka wrote:iTunes automatically downloads two version when you buy an hd tv show: an hd version 720p (1280x720) and another standard definition (720x480 anamorphic, for iPod and iPhone).

You are looking at the wrong one :P
Strangely enough, the standard definition shows are actually stored as 640x480 (not 720x480) and play anamorphically at 853x480 pixels. This is to maintain compatibility with the iPod 5G, I'm sure, since it can't play anything greater than 640x480. To get 853x480 playback from HandBrake encodes, as far as I can tell, you would have to encode at 720x480 which wouldn't work on the iPod 5G. Seems a bit odd that Apple encodes the shows at the wrong aspect ratio.

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Ritsuka
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Re: iTunes HD TV Shows?

Post by Ritsuka »

Wrong? The final size is the same, you may not like the way apple does it, but there is no difference is the actual dimension.

rhester
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Re: iTunes HD TV Shows?

Post by rhester »

And HB can do 16:9 anamorphic at 640x480 physical with ease, just like Apple. We give you the choice.

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erise
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Re: iTunes HD TV Shows?

Post by erise »

rhester wrote:And HB can do 16:9 anamorphic at 640x480 physical with ease, just like Apple. We give you the choice.

Rodney
I didn't realize this was possible in HandBrake, because I don't see a way to choose 640x480 physical on 16:9 anamorphic on the Mac version (Snapshot 2). I have a 16:9 source, but when I select Loose Anamorphic and change the width to 640, HandBrake automatically lowers the height to 432. The height field is dimmed and not manually adjustable. The "Keep aspect ratio" checkbox is also dimmed (and always unchecked) when Loose Anamorphic is selected.

rhester
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Re: iTunes HD TV Shows?

Post by rhester »

I only use the CLI version - that may make the difference. :/ Which platform GUI are you using?

Rodney

erise
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Re: iTunes HD TV Shows?

Post by erise »

rhester wrote:I only use the CLI version - that may make the difference. :/ Which platform GUI are you using?

Rodney
I'm running the GUI version of HandBrake Snapshot 2 for Mac OS X Intel. More specifically, the version available at this URL.

jbrjake
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Re: iTunes HD TV Shows?

Post by jbrjake »

rhester wrote:And HB can do 16:9 anamorphic at 640x480 physical with ease, just like Apple.
Err...not exactly.

Loose anamorphic will do 16x9 anamorphic at 640*, yes. But it doesn't squeeze stuff to 640*480 the way Apple does. It scales down the aspect ratio of the storage frame to the width given. So for a true 16x9 display, 720*480 storage source, if you used loose ana with a width of 640 you'd get storage dimensions near 640*426, with the actual height varying to match your chosen modulus value (default == 16). Since 640*426 is approx. 1.5:1.

If the source was ~2.35:1, stored at 720*360 after cropping, and you did loose ana with a width of 640, you'd get a stored resolution of approximately 640*270, since that's about ~2.35:1.

I set it up like this because, personally, I don't like the way Apple distorts 1.5:1 to 1.33:1 for storage.

rhester
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Re: iTunes HD TV Shows?

Post by rhester »

Well, there is good reason for them to do so, for legacy compatibility with 5G devices.

I swear I remember *doing* this with HandBrake back when VisualHub first introduced it - it might have been a hack I put in just to see it work (or adopted someone else's hack).

Rodney

remyhelsinki
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Re: iTunes HD TV Shows?

Post by remyhelsinki »

erise wrote:I had the same problem. It seems to be a bug in iTunes where SD shows are downloaded instead of HD if you have the Shopping Cart turned on. Switch to One-Click Shopping and try again... you'll get both the SD (853x480) and HD (1280x720) versions.
Oh this makes sense. I had the shopping cart on and could only see/download and SD version. That's good to know there really is HD content on iTunes. My mistake.

jbrjake
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Re: iTunes HD TV Shows?

Post by jbrjake »

jbrjake wrote:If the source was ~2.35:1, stored at 720*360 after cropping, and you did loose ana with a width of 640, you'd get a stored resolution of approximately 640*270, since that's about ~2.35:1.
Uh, no. WTF was I thinking there? That makes absolutely no sense.

If the source was ~2.35:1, stored at 720*360 after cropping, and you did loose ana with a width of 640, you'd get a stored resolution of approximately 640*320 since 720/360 = a storage aspect ratio of 2.

Not sure what you mean about 5G compatibility, rhester. My complaint isn't that they reduced size to fit the 640*480 rez limit those devices have, it's that they use distort more to fill that 640*480 window completely and then stretch all the way back out to 854*480 on a computer.

Apple:
720*360 -> 640*360 -> 854*360

HandBrake
720*360 -> 640*320 -> 758*320

So Apple scales down less and distorts more, HB scales down more and distorts the same amount the DVD does. Probably not a meaningful distinction, granted.

rhester
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Re: iTunes HD TV Shows?

Post by rhester »

I actually do think the distinction is meaningful, because Apple is providing more "real" pixels, resulting in at the very least higher vertical resolution. I really don't see the disadvantage in using as much pixelspace as possible (640x480, in the case of the 5G) to maximize physical resolution, in much the same way DVD uses as much pixelspace as possible. Yes, Apple uses more distortion, but it does in fact result in a picture that is more "true" in terms of absolute resolution.

Rodney

jbrjake
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Re: iTunes HD TV Shows?

Post by jbrjake »

rhester wrote:Yes, Apple uses more distortion, but it does in fact result in a picture that is more "true" in terms of absolute resolution.
Is it? We're talking the 5G, so I assume maximizing bitrate to 1500kb/s regardless of content is a given. If you're doing a set bitrate, you're going to get less artifacting with a lower resolution. Plus, that true resolution isn't going to be seen on an iPod 5G screen's 320*240 display or a 640*480 SDTV. On a computer it will usually be scaled up to such high definition resolutions that a difference between 360 and 320 becomes negligible -- it's going to look bad either way (to me the iTunes "anamorphic" looks way softer than a DVD despite keeping the initial height). IMO, the only time it really matters is for non-zoomed non-fullscreen computer display, and then the Apple version is interpolating far more pixels than HandBrake or the DVD would:

Apple:
307,440 - 230,400 = 77,040 = 25.05% interpolated pixels

HandBrake:
242,560 - 204,800 = 37,760 = 15.57% interpolated pixels

DVD:
307,440 - 259,200 = 48,240 = 15.69% interpolated pixels

Of course, the real solution is just to use a newer iPod and not bother with scaling ;>

rhester
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Re: iTunes HD TV Shows?

Post by rhester »

I concede. :)

Rodney

ephartke
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Re: iTunes HD TV Shows?

Post by ephartke »

Apple:
720*360 -> 640*360 -> 854*360
Is this a preset that you might think of including at some point in the future? Maybe I'm misguided in think this, but It seems like a pretty good comprise for folks that want to create only one file that works on both the AppleTV and the iPod. The iPod HiRez option is nice but still a bit soft when viewed on the AppleTV.

BTW, Handbrake is an exceptional piece of software!

I'm not being a "sycophantic suckup"... I swear...

nightstrm
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Re: iTunes HD TV Shows?

Post by nightstrm »

ephartke wrote:
Apple:
720*360 -> 640*360 -> 854*360
Is this a preset that you might think of including at some point in the future? Maybe I'm misguided in think this, but It seems like a pretty good comprise for folks that want to create only one file that works on both the AppleTV and the iPod. The iPod HiRez option is nice but still a bit soft when viewed on the AppleTV.

BTW, Handbrake is an exceptional piece of software!

I'm not being a "sycophantic suckup"... I swear...
Why... you don't need to do it this way... take iPod High-Res and enable anamorphic in the picture settings. It will work on AppleTV/iPhone, admittedly I have no idea about older iPods though.

All of my encodes are anamorphic and work perfectly well on all of my devices, and look pretty darn good.

You can even save your own preset so you don't have to do this all the time.

ephartke
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Re: iTunes HD TV Shows?

Post by ephartke »

Why... you don't need to do it this way... take iPod High-Res and enable anamorphic in the picture settings. It will work on AppleTV/iPhone, admittedly I have no idea about older iPods though.

All of my encodes are anamorphic and work perfectly well on all of my devices, and look pretty darn good.

You can even save your own preset so you don't have to do this all the time.
I'll give that a try. Thanks!

dynaflash
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Re: iTunes HD TV Shows?

Post by dynaflash »

nightstrm wrote:You can even save your own preset so you don't have to do this all the time.
Exactly, its like people think the only presets they can use are the built in ones.
http://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/Presets

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