'Automatically add Tracks' settings

General questions or discussion about HandBrake, Video and/or audio transcoding, trends etc.
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markfilipak
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'Automatically add Tracks' settings

Post by markfilipak » Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:54 am

I'm mystified by the 'Audio Defaults' dialog, 'Automatically add Tracks' settings (which appears to be undocumented).

How should I set it to simply pass through all the audio channels on the DVD/BD? I know there's an 'Auto Passthru' choice, but when I choose it, 'Bitrate' and the other fields don't disappear (and since I know the developers love modal dialogs, the other fields must retain some meaning, even when 'Auto Passthru' is selected).

Can anyone enlighten me?

Thanks!

mduell
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Re: 'Automatically add Tracks' settings

Post by mduell » Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:28 pm

If you're really trying to do anything like this and keep your sanity, run away from the angry spaghetti GUI use the CLI. You can specify all possible tracks and HB will use what exists.

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BradleyS
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Re: 'Automatically add Tracks' settings

Post by BradleyS » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:03 pm

Recent HandBrake versions label the dialog Selection Behavior. Make sure you're using 1.2.2 or a nightly/snapshot build.

You will need to use MKV format because MP4 only supports AAC, AC3, and E-AC3.

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BradleyS
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Re: 'Automatically add Tracks' settings

Post by BradleyS » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:04 pm

The additional fields are for the fallback encoder, which is what is used when the source format cannot be passed through (currently: Opus, Vorbis, LPCM, and less common formats).

markfilipak
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Re: 'Automatically add Tracks' settings

Post by markfilipak » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:43 pm

As you probably have realized, I'm new to HB. The more I use it, the more I love it, but.... there are quirks in the GUI that make it harder for users to understand the app. That lack of understanding leads to support questions like mine. "It should just work" will probably never be the case with an app like HB.

Yesterday I discovered that many DVDs that are supposedly i30 really have p24 streams. It's called "soft telecine". The player is expected to convert the internal p24 to the TV's 60 fps. So a DVD that's marked i30 is really p25 and gets converted to p60. It never is i30!

Since I'm an engineer, and since I know that so-called "hard telecine", i.e., actual i30 on the disc, is proflagate due to redundant (repeated) fields (due to 2-3 pull-down), I suspected that soft telecine could be done but I just didn't know. Now I do. MPV player gives the confirmation for all this (whereas PowerDVD & VLC don't).
mduell wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:28 pm
If you're really trying to do anything like this and keep your sanity, run away from the angry spaghetti GUI use the CLI. You can specify all possible tracks and HB will use what exists.
Why not bypass HB totally and use ffmpeg directly, eh? I prefer the HB GUI. It allows me to specify all possible tracks, and in a convenient (non-CLI) manner.
BradleyS wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:04 pm
The additional fields are for the fallback encoder, which is what is used when the source format cannot be passed through (currently: Opus, Vorbis, LPCM, and less common formats).
Bradley, I appreciate your responses ...the time you take -- I really, really do. I know that you think that educating users on the processes is best and that documenting from the GUI-control perspective is fruitless, but I think you're mistaken. I think that users at the level of HB are pretty smart and that, given the details of what each control actually does, will put it together in their minds. Further, documenting the GUI-controls is extensible whereas documenting the processes is an all-or-nothing proposition ...my opinion of course but it's based on 40 years of experience. Thank about it, please. I can help you achieve your goals. I'm a retired engineer with time. I can document the GUI controls, but I need to know that there's an audience for it. That means you. PM me if you like.

Love ya all!

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BradleyS
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Re: 'Automatically add Tracks' settings

Post by BradleyS » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:53 pm

HandBrake ignores soft telecine flags in DVD video and encodes 24p. Interlace detection combined with the decomb filter takes care interlaced, hard telecine, and mixed content. Detelecine can also reverse NTSC hard telecine in a lossless manner (IVTC), but it is only useful if you are certain your source is hard telecined.

The documentation project focuses on workflows, not detailed analysis of controls, on purpose. See https://github.com/HandBrake/HandBrake- ... G.markdown for more information. You're welcome to contribute, but we are specifically against the type of control documentation you describe; we had it before and it was not helpful to non-engineers, who make up the vast majority of HandBrake's users.

Glad to hear you're enjoying HandBrake!

markfilipak
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Re: 'Automatically add Tracks' settings

Post by markfilipak » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:36 pm

BradleyS wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:53 pm
... we are specifically against the type of control documentation you describe; we had it before and it was not helpful to non-engineers, who make up the vast majority of HandBrake's users.
Was it the right kind of control documentation? Do you have some old content you can send me?

markfilipak
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Re: 'Automatically add Tracks' settings

Post by markfilipak » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:55 pm

BradleyS wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:03 pm
Recent HandBrake versions label the dialog Selection Behavior.
Not so. The main GUI button is labeled "Selection Behavior". The dialog it opens is named 'Audio Defaults'.

markfilipak
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Re: 'Automatically add Tracks' settings

Post by markfilipak » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:14 pm

BradleyS wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:53 pm
HandBrake ignores soft telecine flags in DVD video and encodes 24p. ...
Indeed. That's what I had to discover. Only MPV gave me a clue. HB didn't. Thanks to JEEB, I now know about ffprobe,
... Interlace detection combined with the decomb filter takes care interlaced, hard telecine, and mixed content. ...
I have some documentaries that mix p30-telecine & i30-telecast sources. I can get the i30-telecast to look good, but it ruins the p30-telecine. I have not found a unitary way to handle both in the same stream.
... Detelecine can also reverse NTSC hard telecine in a lossless manner (IVTC), but it is only useful if you are certain your source is hard telecined.
See comment directly above.

mduell
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Re: 'Automatically add Tracks' settings

Post by mduell » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:15 pm

markfilipak wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:43 pm
mduell wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:28 pm
If you're really trying to do anything like this and keep your sanity, run away from the angry spaghetti GUI use the CLI. You can specify all possible tracks and HB will use what exists.
Why not bypass HB totally and use ffmpeg directly, eh? I prefer the HB GUI. It allows me to specify all possible tracks, and in a convenient (non-CLI) manner.
HB isn't an ffmpeg wrapper, so this question doesn't make any particular sense.
I use HB rather than ffmpeg, x264, or any of the other libraries HB uses because of the conveniences HB provides. But with volunteers of mixed skills, the GUI is a bridge too far, while the CLI is quite reasonable.
markfilipak wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:43 pm
I think that users at the level of HB are pretty smart and that, given the details of what each control actually does, will put it together in their minds.
I think you've wildly misunderstood the HB userbase.

markfilipak
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Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:58 pm

Re: 'Automatically add Tracks' settings

Post by markfilipak » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:21 pm

mduell wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:15 pm
markfilipak wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:43 pm
I think that users at the level of HB are pretty smart and that, given the details of what each control actually does, will put it together in their minds.
I think you've wildly misunderstood the HB userbase.
How would you characterize the HB userbase?

mduell
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Re: 'Automatically add Tracks' settings

Post by mduell » Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:02 am

Inept on a good day, just wanting to skip to the best settings for their situation that they haven't really described.

markfilipak
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Re: 'Automatically add Tracks' settings

Post by markfilipak » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:15 am

mduell wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:02 am
Inept on a good day, just wanting to skip to the best settings for their situation that they haven't really described.
Well, it's an awfuly tall mountain to climb, even with your help and Bradley's help and HB's help. Add to that all the bogus info on the net, especially Notionpedia, and can you blame people for simply wanting the pain to stop? I look at the ff***** parameter lists and my mind boggles. I feel I've come up to speed pretty quickly but I'm an engineer with (some) experience in video -- I designed 3 chips (FPGAs). I imagine most people, as they approach video, feel they're walking backwards into a swamp. Oh, and I should mention the special place in Hell for the marketing people who invent meaningless words for video containers, streams, etc. so that their company's product can seem 'special', but that just further muddy the water.

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