HEVC quality vs speed slider, much trial and error!

General questions or discussion about HandBrake, Video and/or audio transcoding, trends etc.
WhatZit
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Re: HEVC quality vs speed slider, much trial and error!

Post by WhatZit »

Ayoross wrote:I've done a few tests, and it seems the grain tuning increases the file size quite a lot. However, it clearly enhance greatly all details.
All I can tell you, in fact, all I WILL tell you, is that I've been able to go from this baseline in x265 v1.9:

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CRF20, Main10, Slow
ctu=32:bframes=6:rc-lookahead=40:scenecut=40:ref=5:limit-refs=3:me=3:merange=26:subme=3:rect=1:amp-0:limit-modes=0:max-merge=3:early-skip=0:b-intra=0:sao=0:signhide=0:weightp=0:weightb=0:aq-mode=2:aq-strength=1:cutree=0:rd=4:tu-intra-depth=3:tu-inter-depth=1:psy-rd=1:psy-rdoq=1.28:rdoq-level=2:qcomp=0.65:strong-intra-smoothing=0:deblock=-1,-1:qg-size=16
to this baseline in x265 v2.2:

Code: Select all

CRF21, Main10, Fast, Grain
deblock=-6,-6:strong-intra-smoothing=0
with little perceptible quality loss TO ME, but with faster encodes and smaller filesizes (typically, depending on source).

If I ever want a lower-quality smaller file, I turn the speed up faster. If I want a higher-quality bigger file, I turn the speed down slower. That's IT!

I'm happy with this "discovery". If you're not, don't use it.

Ayoross
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:07 pm

Re: HEVC quality vs speed slider, much trial and error!

Post by Ayoross »

Here's a result of a few tests:

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Alien				video track encode	  quality
RF18 very slow	11,53 GB	 1,28 fps	*****
RF21 slow GRAIN	5,91 GB	 6,64 fps	****
RF21 fast GRAIN	4,30 GB	20,32 fps	****
RF24 slow GRAIN	3,02 GB	 7,56 fps	*
RF20 very slow	 2,08 GB	 2,52 fps	***
It seems that the best tradeoff is the RF21/fast/grain, then the RF20 very slow. The best video quality is still the RF18 very slow preset, it would be a shame if it wasn't with such a track size... :)
Thank you to share this "discovery".

archer75
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Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:42 pm

Re: HEVC quality vs speed slider, much trial and error!

Post by archer75 »

I use CRF 18, medium. Why? Because when comparing to the original BD rip I can see a difference when using 20 or 22. At 18 I cannot. Granted I have to go frame by frame and have my face close to my monitor but it is noticeable. My rips are still smaller using h.265 versus h.264 so i'm happy and I get the HD audio track and they look just the like bluray rip to me.

I'm using an Intel 5820 6 core CPU. Takes about 2-3 hours per movie. I'm ok with that.

I'm going to try tunegrain -6,-6 and see what happens!
Ultimately i'm looking for the smallest filesize that still looks exactly like the original BD rip.

Trypt
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Re: HEVC quality vs speed slider, much trial and error!

Post by Trypt »

Lots of info here. I did upgrade to the latest, but am still not sure if adding any parameters is a good thing under video, I leave the frames at same as source (for anything 30fps or under) and not trying CFR for the first time since VFR may be causing me the skipping, but in the optimize section I only use the medium setting and nothing else, profile on auto, no parameters. I'm in the middle of encoding a 3GB 1080p30 x264 and I changed it to 720p with medium22 x265 with everything off, CFR, and it looks amazing even at 600MB, of course that is on a 27" 1080p monitor with madVR but I cannot tell the difference and my wife says my copy looks better, I did not tell her which is which and made her look at the first 2 minutes (Universal logo going over the planet and the first minute of the movie) a few times of each copy. She picked mine every time, hmm.

The presets now all have some kind of parameters, so I stick to my own emptiness, and I even get rid of the deblock feature and turn it off, is that something I should be doing?

mduell
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Re: HEVC quality vs speed slider, much trial and error!

Post by mduell »

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Trypt
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:05 am

Re: HEVC quality vs speed slider, much trial and error!

Post by Trypt »

Ok thanks for all the info guys, can I just get it in one post now, with the new version, I'm going to use RF21 HEVC Slow, and everything off in the filters section correct? I will decide on the FPS and audio/sub so no worries there.,

The only help I need now is the optimize video section, so now in the new version I have encoder preset (slow), encoder tune (what should I choose if anything?) encoder profile (auto high main baseline?????) and encoder level (I never understood this, some of my encodes before would be 2.1 or 3.1 and most 4.0 or something, should I do something) and finally, extra options, please give me some opinions on this, I will play around, but I need the extra options again, and whether to play around with the Filters tab at all (deblocking is there as well but I always leave all off there).

Thank you.

musicvid
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Re: HEVC quality vs speed slider, much trial and error!

Post by musicvid »

You don't need to fool around, worry about Levels, or obsess over settings just because they are there.
Invoke the High preset. Your worries are over.
Why on earth would you want to cause jumpy video by changing the framerate??????

Methinks you want to play, not encode video.

archer75
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Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:42 pm

Re: HEVC quality vs speed slider, much trial and error!

Post by archer75 »

Trypt wrote:Ok thanks for all the info guys, can I just get it in one post now, with the new version, I'm going to use RF21 HEVC Slow, and everything off in the filters section correct? I will decide on the FPS and audio/sub so no worries there.,

The only help I need now is the optimize video section, so now in the new version I have encoder preset (slow), encoder tune (what should I choose if anything?) encoder profile (auto high main baseline?????) and encoder level (I never understood this, some of my encodes before would be 2.1 or 3.1 and most 4.0 or something, should I do something) and finally, extra options, please give me some opinions on this, I will play around, but I need the extra options again, and whether to play around with the Filters tab at all (deblocking is there as well but I always leave all off there).

Thank you.
You have to play around and see. I leave FPS same as original and variable. Filters tab everything off. Nothing on encoder tune. Encoder profile I leave on auto.
Extra options I use the ones that were in the profile by default. Then I added deblock. Then I took them all off and compared. I see no difference.
So for me it's RF18, HEVC, Medium. Forced subs I burn in and I use HD audio auto passthrough. To me this looks the same as the bluray itself. both doing frame by frame comparisons on my monitor and watching on a 1080p projector on a 145" screen and on a 65" LG OLED. So i'm happy with that.

Trypt
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:05 am

Re: HEVC quality vs speed slider, much trial and error!

Post by Trypt »

I can't just use the preset because they are h264 and when you switch to hevc everything changes, and who knows if the extra options work for hevc. I'm trying right now to encode a 3.5GB 720p h264 copy of the movie Communion, and I'm using no filters, hevc, constant framerate, medium 19, and auto profile with ref=5:bframes=5 in the extra options cuz it was there already from the h264 setting. I encoded the same movie earlier but with nothing in the extra options and MAIN and medium 22 and it came out as a 700MB movie which looked almost the same on potplayer with MADVR at high settings, but visibly not as good on a regular EVR player without madVR, so obviously something is up, and I'm still getting a bit of skipping, its almost not noticable, but it is. So in extra options, anything else? how do I add this deblock setting you're talking about guys? I don't want to use anything in the filter area cuz it's probably too strong.

mduell
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Re: HEVC quality vs speed slider, much trial and error!

Post by mduell »

Trypt wrote:
Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:21 am
I can't just use the preset because they are h264 and when you switch to hevc everything changes, and who knows if the extra options work for hevc
Trypt wrote:
Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:21 am
I'm using ... hevc ... with ref=5:bframes=5 in the extra options cuz it was there already from the h264 setting.
Herp, meet derp.

nhyone
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Re: HEVC quality vs speed slider, much trial and error!

Post by nhyone »

WhatZit wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:19 am
to this baseline in x265 v2.2:

Code: Select all

CRF21, Main10, Fast, Grain
deblock=-6,-6:strong-intra-smoothing=0
with little perceptible quality loss TO ME, but with faster encodes and smaller filesizes (typically, depending on source).
If tune grain works for you, great. But I'm wondering for myself if the increased file size brings it back to x264 ballpark, then what's the point of using the much slower x265?

Trypt
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:05 am

Re: HEVC quality vs speed slider, much trial and error!

Post by Trypt »

From your experience guys, what is the best extra options to use, apparently someone thought it funny that I used ref=5:bframes=5 for HEVC the way I described (it was there on the superHQ1080p preset so I just left it even though I switched to HEVC), but the result is pretty good, although a bit less sharp than the original. Anyone have a good extra options set for HEVC for medium 20 or lower that seems to work for you? What do you add in that box? In fact, I'd like to know from someone who's been doing HEVC in handbreak for a while what works best in the Optimise Video option, Encoder Tune, Preset and the Extra. Thank you guys.

mduell
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Re: HEVC quality vs speed slider, much trial and error!

Post by mduell »

None, use the encoder presets/tunes instead as appropriate for your source and speed/efficiency preference.

rollin_eng
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Re: HEVC quality vs speed slider, much trial and error!

Post by rollin_eng »

Why not just try the x265 presets.

People seem to think there is some super secret awesome setting that is hidden from them but there isn't.

nhyone
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Re: HEVC quality vs speed slider, much trial and error!

Post by nhyone »

rollin_eng wrote:
Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:18 pm
People seem to think there is some super secret awesome setting that is hidden from them but there isn't.
The thing is, x265 does have secret sauce.

For people who think x265 is prone to smoothing, there is a bunch of options to set to retain the fine details. --tune grain is the nuclear option, I think.

And there is --aq-mode 3. From the x265 docs: AQ enabled with auto-variance and bias to dark scenes. This is recommended for 8-bit encodes or low-bitrate 10-bit encodes, to prevent color banding/blocking.

mduell
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Re: HEVC quality vs speed slider, much trial and error!

Post by mduell »

So the readily exposed tune settings we're suggesting you use are now a big secret?

Trypt
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:05 am

Re: HEVC quality vs speed slider, much trial and error!

Post by Trypt »

I still don't know exactly what tune settings you're talking about, please can an encoder that does HEVC a lot just post what you use in the extra options section for your best results, I just want to try and after that I'll make my own decision. Leaving it empty works of course but if I can make it better somehow, why not? That being said, I don't see any HEVC presets or am I missing them? Every time I click on HQ presets its always 264 even the super high quality. And the ones I used, the ref=5:bframes=5 is a no-no? What exactly does it mean, and is there a guide for all the extra options for handbreak with an explanation to what it does and the range of numbers to use? Firstly though please just stick to letting me know the first part of my inquiry, the one about the encoder that knows what he/she is doing and what you use.

Thank you very much!

rollin_eng
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Re: HEVC quality vs speed slider, much trial and error!

Post by rollin_eng »

Scroll down the presets, there are x265 ones under matroska.

The tune settings are a dropdown on the video tab.

mduell
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Re: HEVC quality vs speed slider, much trial and error!

Post by mduell »

With any HB preset, on the Video tab where you change the Video Codec to x265, you'll find the Encoder Preset and Encoder Tune options.

The x264 options from some preset you're trying to apply to x265 are not particularly appropriate or optimal.

x265 options are well documented elsewhere on the internet and you should refer to that documentation rather than anything HB-specific for x265 options.

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