A question for convertion

General questions or discussion about HandBrake, Video and/or audio transcoding, trends etc.
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CompressorPowa
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A question for convertion

Post by CompressorPowa »

First of all i apologize for my horrible english.
I have a question to offer, here are the details:
Having a 5.16gb video MKV file, x264, 23.976 fps, 1080p, aac, stereo, 48Hz, audio bitrate 128, no subtitles, no chapters
-using-
Codec x265, fps same as source, variable framerate, constant quality 20, preset very-fast, tune none, profile none + aac stereo 48Hz bitrate 128
How great will be the converted file?
As you may know, at least, also be made in approximate so?
Possible to know if it is worth to convert the file, you have to wait for several hours without having an idea of the possible saving of space in the conversion?
Would not it be better, set the values in the program and have a preview of the size of the output file (also approximate)? So as to see if the settings to be changed or not, or whether it is worthwhile, if only, to do the conversion.
Tnx for effort.
rollin_eng
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Re: A question for convertion

Post by rollin_eng »

If you want to know what it will look like just convert a small section or chapter and find out.

Could you please post your logs, instructions can be found here:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=31236
CompressorPowa
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Re: A question for convertion

Post by CompressorPowa »

It's okay, I'm sorry to have caused trouble.
Trying to improve the coding with new settings i noticed that unfortunately the problems are added:
-codec x265 is 1.9 not last 2.1
-the audio codec aac fdk is missing
-the function to convert in a video file -only the audio or only the video- is not present
-It does not exist the possibility to know the size of the output files automatically by the program (even in an approximate way)
calculated for each file to have even just a approximate value of the magnitude is a slow problem
i am forced to change the program :(
Thanks anyway.
mduell
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Re: A question for convertion

Post by mduell »

Yea, HB does not intend to address any of those, for a variety of scope, architecture, policy, and political reasons.
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JohnAStebbins
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Re: A question for convertion

Post by JohnAStebbins »

CompressorPowa wrote:It's okay, I'm sorry to have caused trouble.
Trying to improve the coding with new settings i noticed that unfortunately the problems are added:
-codec x265 is 1.9 not last 2.1
2.1 is in the nightly builds. We don't backport new codecs to old releases. 2.1 will be in the next handbrake release.
-the audio codec aac fdk is missing
The fdk-aac license is considered incompatible with GPL. You can build HandBrake with this library enabled from source, but we can not distribute a binary with it enabled.
-the function to convert in a video file -only the audio or only the video- is not present
This is not an objective of the HandBrake project. HandBrake is a video encoder.
-It does not exist the possibility to know the size of the output files automatically by the program (even in an approximate way)
calculated for each file to have even just a approximate value of the magnitude is a slow problem
HandBrake once had a "target file size" option. It was so inaccurate that it generated a constant stream of questions on the forums. There was no way to correct the inaccuracies because they are the result of inaccuracies in the source video which we have no control over. So the feature was removed. It is not coming back.
i am forced to change the program :(
Thanks anyway.
Too bad. So sad. Byebye.
CompressorPowa
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Re: A question for convertion

Post by CompressorPowa »

"2.1 is in the nightly builds. We don't backport new codecs to old releases. 2.1 will be in the next handbrake release."
-good to know, the rest of the beta versions always give unexpected problems.

"The fdk-aac license is considered incompatible with GPL. You can build HandBrake with this library enabled from source, but we can not distribute a binary with it enabled"
-learning how to do it, i could create a customized version of handbrake? It seems complicated but very interesting.

"This is not an objective of the HandBrake project. HandBrake is a video encoder."
-sin, a direct copy function for audio/video would solve many problems for lost time in re-compressions

"HandBrake once had a "target file size" option. It was so inaccurate that it generated a constant stream of questions on the forums. There was no way to correct the inaccuracies because they are the result of inaccuracies in the source video which we have no control over. So the feature was removed. It is not coming back."
-He had the opportunity to decide the output file or gave only as requested by many, only the information? (I repeat, would be fine too rough) than would be the output file? Believe me could definitely use a lot.

"Thanks anyway. Too bad. So sad. Byebye."
-It seems very much a who cares?! XD If you think that mine is an attack on your work you are wrong, I got to test a myriad of programs for the conversion and handbrake has distinguished himself always among the top 3 in any tests, as execution, speed, reliability, quality , etc. etc. etc., (if I have the consent and I can appoint senior programs could even make an article of why and wherefores).
Not at all, i would like many others, it had the characteristics of which i speak, making the program really, more comprehensive and better. Thanks for effort.
mduell
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Re: A question for convertion

Post by mduell »

CompressorPowa wrote:"The fdk-aac license is considered incompatible with GPL. You can build HandBrake with this library enabled from source, but we can not distribute a binary with it enabled"
-learning how to do it, i could create a customized version of handbrake? It seems complicated but very interesting.
Yes, it's open source, you can modify it as you see fit.
CompressorPowa wrote:"This is not an objective of the HandBrake project. HandBrake is a video encoder."
-sin, a direct copy function for audio/video would solve many problems for lost time in re-compressions
There are many other programs intended for that purpose.
CompressorPowa wrote:"HandBrake once had a "target file size" option. It was so inaccurate that it generated a constant stream of questions on the forums. There was no way to correct the inaccuracies because they are the result of inaccuracies in the source video which we have no control over. So the feature was removed. It is not coming back."
-He had the opportunity to decide the output file or gave only as requested by many, only the information? (I repeat, would be fine too rough) than would be the output file? Believe me could definitely use a lot.
They're both equally wrong. And you can't even predict the output size with the preferred ratecontrol method (quality based).
CompressorPowa
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Re: A question for convertion

Post by CompressorPowa »

"Yes, it's open source, you can modify it as you see fit."
-there is a guide that explains how to do and if you need external programs to package the customized version?

"There are many other programs intended for that purpose"
-remains a pity he did not have this function, the rest handbrake is good program, it would be even better

"They're both equally wrong. And you can't even predict the output size with the preferred ratecontrol method (quality based)."
-I find constant quality is better. I've limited for now the probrem of this missing information with a percentage algorithm (calculated only on a fixed value of quality), although, if it were implemented in the program would be even better

I'm not a technical programmer, i'm a user, i certify things as they appear on-screen, etc, etc, that a codec or program to have "technical improvements" of any kind for me is relative if the final result to the screen not satisfies. The current most striking example are the x265 codec version 1.9, although "on paper" are technically improved, in fact, is worse than earlier for a "micro effect similar to antialiasing" you notice especially on the faces of the characters in the images, with the same settings which does not happen in version 1.8 or 2.1.
rollin_eng
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Re: A question for convertion

Post by rollin_eng »

The nightly build here has x265 v2.1:

https://handbrake.fr/nightly.php
mduell
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Re: A question for convertion

Post by mduell »

CompressorPowa wrote:"Yes, it's open source, you can modify it as you see fit."
-there is a guide that explains how to do and if you need external programs to package the customized version?
https://handbrake.fr/docs/en/latest/dev ... ndows.html
CompressorPowa wrote:"There are many other programs intended for that purpose"
-remains a pity he did not have this function, the rest handbrake is good program, it would be even better
It requires a fundamentally different architecture to how HB is designed. HB would be in many ways worse if it supported this.
CompressorPowa wrote:"They're both equally wrong. And you can't even predict the output size with the preferred ratecontrol method (quality based)."
-I find constant quality is better. I've limited for now the probrem of this missing information with a percentage algorithm (calculated only on a fixed value of quality), although, if it were implemented in the program would be even better
The output size of a constant quality encode is inherently unpredictable.
CompressorPowa wrote:I'm not a technical programmer, i'm a user, i certify things as they appear on-screen, etc, etc, that a codec or program to have "technical improvements" of any kind for me is relative if the final result to the screen not satisfies. The current most striking example are the x265 codec version 1.9, although "on paper" are technically improved, in fact, is worse than earlier for a "micro effect similar to antialiasing" you notice especially on the faces of the characters in the images, with the same settings which does not happen in version 1.8 or 2.1.
So use the nightly with 2.1?
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JohnAStebbins
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Re: A question for convertion

Post by JohnAStebbins »

CompressorPowa wrote:
CompressorPowa wrote: i am forced to change the program :(
Thanks anyway.
JohnAStebbins wrote: Too bad. So sad. Byebye.
-It seems very much a who cares?! XD If you think that mine is an attack on your work you are wrong,
Just to be clear, I didn't interpret your comments as an attack or rude in any way. And I was also not meaning to be rude. My comment was meant to convey that HandBrake isn't the tool for everybody and I don't get bent out of shape when someone decides they need to look elsewhere for their needs.
CompressorPowa
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Re: A question for convertion

Post by CompressorPowa »

"Just to be clear, I didn't interpret your comments as an attack or rude in any way. And I was also not meaning to be rude. My comment was meant to convey that HandBrake isn't the tool for everybody and I don't get bent out of shape when someone decides they need to look elsewhere for their needs."
- n.p XD the problem of chat is that we can not understand "the tone" of the words
I thank all of the valuable information, really appreciated.
I hope that soon exit the new stable version of handbrake, for some new tests.

A further question, according to your opinion, really should compress with: psnr and main10?
mduell
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Re: A question for convertion

Post by mduell »

PSNR is for benchmarking where PSNR will be used. For real use for playback for humans you don't want PSNR.
CompressorPowa
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Re: A question for convertion

Post by CompressorPowa »

"PSNR is for benchmarking where PSNR will be used. For real use for playback for humans you don't want PSNR."
-The information shows that, the Psrn profile removes some optimizations in the compression (adaptive quant, psy-rd, cutree) allowing further reduction in file size (a pure example of a 4GB file is compressed to 1.8GB and 1.4GB with active Psrn), at the expense of quality although it seems in the tiniest part. Personally i noticed on the bottom parts, one-color gradient, the presence of blocks, this does not always, it would appear most only in images less defined.
Setting Main10 (that does not change the size of the compressed file) it would seem that the colors with similar pixels are defined more clearly (the contours that distinguish the blocks are less obvious).
I also ask you feedback on the merits of Psrn/Main10, whether it is worth it, both, just one, and maybe why?
Main 10 should always be used? As opposed Psrn gave you problems or issues? Personal feedback is very welcome.
CompressorPowa
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Re: A question for convertion

Post by CompressorPowa »

No feedback...
Last edited by CompressorPowa on Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CompressorPowa
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Re: A question for convertion

Post by CompressorPowa »

Sin... I would have preferred there were feedback and opinions.
After many tests in my opinion i can say and confirm that:
-Psnr: Allowing allows to disable some improvements, more compression, but unfortunately at the expense more than anything else, the fluidity in the most bustling scenes (something that perhaps only the most attentive eye perceives).
-Main10: Allows greater color spectrum for each pixel, but if the video was already lacking it, is in this case irrelevant.
I apologize if i had to be in error for my tests and findings.
A further regret is that it seems to reports the x265 codec 2.1 has bugs, we'll see, 1.9 for now seems still the best in this case.

A greeting to all and good compression XD
mduell
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Re: A question for convertion

Post by mduell »

PSNR is optimized for PSNR benchmarking. If you're PSNR benchmarking you should use it. If not, you shouldn't.

Main10 is useful for 10 bit content. If you don't have 10 bit content, don't bother.
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