Subtitles

General questions or discussion about HandBrake, Video and/or audio transcoding, trends etc.
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JWF
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:53 pm

Subtitles

Post by JWF » Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:53 pm

Hi

My question is: Why doesn't Handbrake version 0.9.9.5530 rip/encode subtitles?

I have now over two days tried to make Handbrake Work properly by altering all sorts of oprtions. My last try was to leave more or less everything as predefined by Handbrake "Normal"

I have searched this Forum for "Subtitles" and it enders 6.546 hits. Too many to go through. Most of them too detailed and in desciption way above my knowledge and understanding of IT. I did find a few posts that just might have solve my question, but they were not spot on.

I'm sorry if I missed a thread adressing my problem.

I'm just a very ordinary user of with absolutly no in-depht knowledge of programming and the like. I have a very ordinary Sony Vaio PC - although very new and powerfull - and I'm merely trying to upload my many DVDs to my newly purchased Synology NAS.

My "test" is the DVD "The Good Shepard" from 2006. As this is my first time with Handbrake, I made a small test to see if I could get it right.

Consequently I only added Title 1 - chapters 1 through 3 to the queue.

I'm from Denmark and have a hearing problem. Thus I need to have all my DVD ripped with Danish subtitles. "The Good Shepard" DVD comes with numerous subtitle options including Danish.

So what's the problem? Answer: I don't know!

I use AnyDVD to unprotect the DVD.

In Handbrake - "Preferences" - "Audio and Subtitles" I have the following settings:
Select your preferred languages: Audio = Any; Subtitles = Dansk (Danish)
Automatic languages for possible selection; Audio = Add All Remaining; Subtitles = Add All (Where possible)
Additional languages for possible selection: Dansk (Danish) and English
Audio Tab Options: cehck mark in "Show advanced audio passthru....."

In Handbrake I choose Mp4 as container. Preset is "Normal".

Under the menupoint "Subtitles" I only have one dialogbox:
Source = Dansk (VobSub); Check is put in "Forced Only" and "Burn In"
No check in "Default" and the rest of the options are subdued.

That's it! Away we go. Press Start.

Shortly after I found the encoded/ripped DVD in the form of a Mp4 files in the Output Folder on my Sony.

Before I started uploading to the Synology NAS, I made a Little test.

I opened the mp4 files in Windows Media Player. Result = Nice film, but no subtitles
I then opened the mp4 files in VLC. Result = Nice film, but no subtitles.

In both WMP and VLC I have made sure (I hope) that the players are set to show subtitles.

What can possibly be wrong?
Have I missed something?


Finally I have the same problem with "chapters", "fast forward" and "fast return". Neither WMP nor VLC could make these very simple funtions Work.


As I said, I just an ordinary user of programs such as Handbrake Thus 'm not inclined to fidle around with a lot of speciel programming.

I just need my software to work without the hassle of additional programming!

Looking forward to yours answers and thanking you all in advance

Jan

BTW:
How do I obtain soft subtitles in stead of hard subtitles?
How do I get the menu of the original DVD displayed?

Smithcraft
Veteran User
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:04 pm

Re: Subtitles

Post by Smithcraft » Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:36 pm

MP4 does not support menus, and although MKV has menu support, it's not supported in Handbrake. If you want the menus you need to make a rip of the disc, rather than transcode the main feature.

MP4 does not support the VOBSUB format, which is the subtitle format for DVDs, therefore the subtitles can not be passed through, and have to be burned in(hardsubbed) to the file. If you want softsubs you will either have to find them on the internet, or make them yourself with something like Subtitle Edit. Or use the Matroska container instead.

As for your selection of Forced Only, that means that Handbrake will only look for subs that are flagged as Forced and will only burn those in. Don't select Forced Only if you want the full stream.

Also, this is all just speculation on my part, because with out the encode log that is required for all support requests, I can only help you with general issues and not anything specific to the encode.

SC

GregiBoy
Veteran User
Posts: 908
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:23 pm

Re: Subtitles

Post by GregiBoy » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:53 pm

And also information on your target playback device(s) would help.

Some will just not utilise soft subs. You would be better using the MKV container if VLC is your target player and soft subs that you can turn on/off.

Forget WMP as it is a piece of sh*t.

JWF
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:53 pm

Re: Subtitles

Post by JWF » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:04 am

Many thanks to Smithcraft & GregiBoy for very quick and usefull answers.

I'm sorry that I didn't include the Encode Log and a write-up of the playback devices. I tested The Good Shepard on both WMP and VLC. Both devices are the latest versions, and the encode film were tested on both devices using standard playback settings.

I tend to go with VLC as it has many more options, but on my Sony Vaio the WMP had the sharper and clearer pictures. The difference between WMP and VLC (on my Sony Vaio) can best be described as the difference between the newest Samsung Ultrathin LED Flatscreen TV (WMP) and an older (thicker) LCD FletscreenTV (VLC). I tried to figure out why, but haven't been able to come up with an answer.

It's a pitty that MP4 doesn't support VOBSUB, but as Smithcraft mentions VOBSUB's can be "burned in" when encoding.

I did fiddled around with the MKV format and softsubs, and it did work beautifully, but I still prefer MP4 to MKV:

1. MP4 is still more universally accepted and plays on almost all newer devices.
2. Re softsubs contra hardsubs I have come to the conclusion that softsubs is not worth the trouble. First of all many devices doesn't support softsubs, and secondly I almost always need danish subtitles due to my diminished hearing. I use an Oticon state of the art hearing aid, but it's still not the same as having ones full and normal hearing capacity.

In conclusion I encode DVD's using the "burn in" feature of Handbrake without checking "forced only" or "default".


Smithcraft mentions that: "If you want the menus you need to make a rip of the disc, rather than transcode the main feature."

A. What is the exact difference between "ripping the disc" and "transcoding the main feature"?
B. How do I "rip" instead of "transcoding" i.e. can I use Handbrake and if not which software/program is needed?
C. On what device can a "ripped" DVD be played?
D. Can a "ripped" DVD later on be "transcoded" without loosing the menus?

I think I have a fair idea of what the difference might be, but I not quiet sure. I thought that Handbrake and similar tools were "ripping" as weel as transcoding.

.......or have I completely misunderstood the point?

Thanks
Jan

GregiBoy
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Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:23 pm

Re: Subtitles

Post by GregiBoy » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:59 am

Yeah, you have....

I'll try to be simplistic in my approach.

I define "RIPPING THE DISC" as copying the content of a DVD or Blu-Ray to a folder or ISO image on your hard disk minus any copy protection. This maintains the DVD/BR structure with menus/extras, the whole catastrophe.

Handbrake will not do this and in no way purports to defeat any copy protection schema.

Programs that will do this are AnyDVD and DVD Fab and generally, this takes up the same space on your HDD as the space taken on the optical disk.

XBMC or VLC will play this from the folder structure or ISO just as if the original disk was inserted. (Not WMP!!!) Quite a lot of hardware media players such as the PIVOS and WDTV will play from these rips on your HDD. Don't even think about Apple!!

Transcoding, at which Handbrake is the "GOLD STANDARD", takes titles from these structures and "Transcodes" them into a file that generally uses a more efficient way.

So yes to your question D.

I hope this helps.

Smithcraft
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:04 pm

Re: Subtitles

Post by Smithcraft » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:11 am

A - Ripping is making a copy of the file structure of the disc, or copying the data without any conversion, and most likely also removing the copy protection. Transcoding is converting the information from one format to another, like converting an audio CD to MP3 or AAC files. With DVDs it would be from MPEG2 to x264.

B - You rip by using a ripping application, and you transcode by using a transcoder. :mrgreen: The only ripper I use is MakeMKV which will not do what you want. AnyDVD, or Clone DVD, would be a good option.

C - You can play a ripped DVD typically on a computer, or anything that would understand the data structure of a DVD. Maybe a DVD player that might have a USB port might be able to play a DVD image on a USB drive. Maybe...

D - No. Once you transcode, you are moving from a data structure to a file in a container that does not support menus.

SC

GregiBoy
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Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:23 pm

Re: Subtitles

Post by GregiBoy » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:21 am

Sorry SC on D. I didn't see the menu proviso.

Smithcraft
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Posts: 2691
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:04 pm

Re: Subtitles

Post by Smithcraft » Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:57 am

No problems!

SC

rafaelsigues
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:55 pm

Re: Subtitles

Post by rafaelsigues » Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:04 pm

Friends, I have a doubt and would like to help. I already have a video file. MKV and another subtitle file. SRT. When importing the caption format. Handbreakes SRT makes perfect though Convert the legend is as SoftSubtitles which will only be seen in programs like VLC you can select the subtitle.

I would like to convert to. MP4 but with subtitles in the video embedded permanently so HardBurn as described in the documentation HandBreakes. Is this possible?

Thank you,
Rafael

Smithcraft
Veteran User
Posts: 2691
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:04 pm

Re: Subtitles

Post by Smithcraft » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:57 am

Not with SRT. You would have to convert the sub stream to something else, like ASS, or SSA, and then put them back into the source MKV file, and transcode that to the MP4.

SC

JWF
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:53 pm

Re: Subtitles

Post by JWF » Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:01 am

Once again many thanks to Smithcraft & GregiBoy for your additional answers to my additional question.

Your answers were spot on!

BR Jan

Smithcraft
Veteran User
Posts: 2691
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:04 pm

Re: Subtitles

Post by Smithcraft » Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:44 pm

Good to see that.

If you have anymore questions, feel free to ask!

SC

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