Way to upsize 720 to 1080?

[LastQuestion]

Well, I can't find a way for handbrake to do this. Can't even get it to accept resolution values higher than source. If the content is 1280x720, the only resizing I can seem to do is down. Am I missing something or is handbrake unable to resize content from 720p to 1080p?

[TedJ]

None of the HandBrake GUIs will allow for upscaling. You can upscale using the HandBrake CLI but it's generally considered a Bad Thing™ - it increases file size and encode time with NO appreciable increase in quality versus allowing your player to upscale during playback.

[Deleted User 13735]

It's not worth it. Let your player do the heavy lifting (is there an echo in here?)

[LastQuestion]

For me it is worth it. I'm uploading to youtube and resizing to 1080p allows my videos to stream at the 1080p quality on youtube.

[Deleted User 11865]

Well, then you can use the command-line interface.

[s55]

You are not getting any more quality by increasing the resolution ... You may actually be making it worse.

[Deleted User 11865]

Depending on what bitrate/settings YouTube uses for 1080p vs. 720p, it might be worth it (or not).

[Deleted User 13735]

I have done upsizing to 720p for Youtube when I was starting with mixed formats, and the results were acceptable, but then so is Youtube's 480p player interface. Upsized SD and 480p aren't going to look much different in a fullscreen player interface.

The video after the slideshow in this clip was upsized to 720p from a DVD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eneckWkbyFI

[LastQuestion]

Depending on what bitrate/settings YouTube uses for 1080p vs. 720p, it might be worth it (or not).

It is. The difference in bitrate between the two is substantial enough to be noticed.

[LastQuestion]

Well, one of the reasons I wanted to do this with Handbrake is someone on another forum was going on about Handbrake handles resizing much better than other programs. Apparently he only downsizes content.

In any event if anyone else requires software to upsize videos you can use Staxrip or XviD4PSP 6.0. Staxip is nice because you can que up multiple encodes. XviD4PSP is nice due to it's easy to navigate user interface and tons of options for more advanced users.

[Deleted User 13735]

Well, one of the reasons I wanted to do this with Handbrake is someone on another forum was going on about Handbrake handles resizing much better than other programs. Apparently he only downsizes content.

If that someone is me by chance, that is correct. The resizing / deinterlacing in Handbrake is much better for 1808i->720p, or HD->SD than legacy bicubic/bilinear, or blend/interpolate respectively. That being said, hardware uprez on a DVD/BD player generally looks better than encoding at a higher resolution.

[LastQuestion]

Well, one of the reasons I wanted to do this with Handbrake is someone on another forum was going on about Handbrake handles resizing much better than other programs. Apparently he only downsizes content.

If that someone is me by chance, that is correct. The resizing / deinterlacing in Handbrake is much better for 1808i->720p, or HD->SD than legacy bicubic/bilinear, or blend/interpolate respectively. That being said, hardware uprez on a DVD/BD player generally looks better than encoding at a higher resolution.

I honestly don't know much about video encoding. However, Xvid4PSP does offer Lanczos interpolation which, as I understand it, is also superior to bicubic/bilinear.

On a side note encoding my 720p source to 1080p via 3 pass x264 resulted in very little degradation in quality and can be wholly attributed to the source being 40Mbps and the encode being 12Mbps.


Handbrake seems like a solid application and it's nice that it's there to be used but for people who record console gameplay it's almost worthless by comparison if only because it can't resize content to higher resolutions.

[TedJ]

If HandBrake is "almost worthless" feel free to use another application. Upscaling will affect quality because you're interpolating data that simply isn't there; 720p -> 1080p results in a frame size that's 125% larger than your source.

The real world doesn't work like CSI...

[Deleted User 13735]

but for people who record console gameplay it's almost worthless by comparison if only because it can't resize content to higher resolutions.

That is a rather odd statement, as gamers generally downrez their hi rez, hi bit captures in Handbrake for portability, delivery or streaming. Type "Handbrake" into a search on the fraps forums and see how many hits you get . . .

[LastQuestion]

but for people who record console gameplay it's almost worthless by comparison if only because it can't resize content to higher resolutions.

That is a rather odd statement, as gamers generally downrez their hi rez, hi bit captures in Handbrake for portability, delivery or streaming. Type "Handbrake" into a search on the fraps forums and see how many hits you get . . .

I specified 'console' gamers. CONSOLE. Console games render at 720p. Most capture cards, in fact almost all capture cards, used by console gamers capture via component at 720p and even via HDMI at 720p(or 1080i). For console gamers being unable to resize to 1080p from 720p would make software almost worthless if attempting to achieve the highest quality possible for streaming via youtube. For this purpose, for my purpose, for the purpose of streaming console gameplay via youtube at the highest quality possible Handbrake is useless.

[LastQuestion]

If HandBrake is "almost worthless" feel free to use another application. Upscaling will affect quality because you're interpolating data that simply isn't there; 720p -> 1080p results in a frame size that's 125% larger than your source.

The real world doesn't work like CSI...

I am...I came back to this thread so that others in my situation would benefit from the solutions I found. Also, I never said it didn't affect quality. I said almost all the degradation could easily be attributed to a massive decrease in bitrate. If you want I can upload the screenshots so you can see for yourself.

Even so, what's your point? I said outright that my purpose is to upload to youtube. By resizing my content will stream from youtube at a much higher bitrate than if I didn't resize it from 720p. No matter how you slice it the video quality will be improved on the stream as there's no way in hell that anyone would be able to see what degradation is present from that upscale at the bitrates youtube streams content.

I can understand you guys being defensive of Handbrake but this is ridiculous. I stated the facts of my situation and how it is not one unique to myself and I was met with hostility. If this is typical of how the Handbrake community address's these issues it's no wonder that Handbrake is currently lacking the capability to upsize content.

[TedJ]

No, you stated you didn't know much about video encoding then proceeded to argue the point with several people who have decades of combined experience.

If you're happy with the results of your encode then more power to you... what I can tell you is that the degradation in quality is not predominantly due to the reduction in bitrate, it's from the addition of 1,152,000 pixels that didn't previously exist.

You asked for advice, you were given advice, you didn't want to listen to the advice because it disagreed with your preconceptions. End of story.

[Smithcraft]

Perhaps you are unaware of your comment being inflammatory. If so, I'm sure you don't understand the response. However in the second post, TedJ told you that Handbrake can only upscale via the CLI. So if you want to upscale with Handbrake then use the CLI.

SC

[Deleted User 13735]

in fact almost all capture cards, used by console gamers capture via component at 720p

Wow. You are doing analog capture and then plan to upsize? Best reason I've heard yet to leave uprez out of the Handbrake GUI.
The optimal resolution for Youtube is 720p at this point in time, for abundantly documented reasons you haven't even considered. If you want to upload 1080p to Youtube, you "may" want to save up and get better equipment.

I said almost all the degradation could easily be attributed to a massive decrease in bitrate.

That is incorrect, unequivocally. Optimal bitrate for a given source and compression scheme is optimal, and higher than optimal isn't better, it's just bigger.

No matter how you slice it the video quality will be improved on the stream

You are rewriting the laws of physics. Bitrate = File Size/Time, and nothing else. Raising the bitrate by artificially inflating the display dimensions will give you larger files, period. If you blow air into a balloon, is the balloon heavier, or just thinner?

I stated the facts of my situation and how it is not one unique to myself

It is unique to you if the math doesn't add up, and it doesn't to anyone here. A good reason to post your thoughts on a forum where others are more likely to agree with you.

[EDIT] Speaking of other forums, maybe you'll want to head over to doom9, and dive into the wonderful world of AviSynth, MeGUI, and QTGMC (all free). Kind of on the leading edge when it comes to resizing. Beware though, newbie=snack at doom9. Best of luck.

[LastQuestion]

Perhaps you are unaware of your comment being inflammatory. If so, I'm sure you don't understand the response. However in the second post, TedJ told you that Handbrake can only upscale via the CLI. So if you want to upscale with Handbrake then use the CLI.

SC

Using command line for every single upload is hardly a practical approach. I could do it, but your average console gamer probably has never even opened up command prompt.

[jamiemlaw]

Your average gamer shouldn't be upscaling video.

Have you considered what will happen to the non-1080p versions of the video if you upload an upscaled version. Take the 720p version, for example. Ordinarily, YouTube would take it as it, or possibly re-encode it. But if you give it a blown-up 1080p version, it will have to scale it back down again, introducing another level of losslessness.

[LastQuestion]

Wow. You are doing analog capture and then plan to upsize? Best reason I've heard yet to leave uprez out of the Handbrake GUI.
The optimal resolution for Youtube is 720p at this point in time, for abundantly documented reasons you haven't even considered. If you want to upload 1080p to Youtube, you "may" want to save up and get better equipment.

I capture via HDMI at 720p for a variety of reasons one of which is quality. I'm using a Black Magic Intensity Pro, one of the best capture cards you can get at this moment in time. Furthermore, console games render at 720p, always. When you output to 1080p it upscales the image. The scaling done by the ATI scaler in the 360 is inferior to scalers in modern HDTVs. The scaler in the 360 introduces visible artifacts most notably seen as added noise on textures. By playing at 720p I not only personally have a superior visual experience but the footage I capture is also free of unwanted artifacts. If you're interested in capturing console gameplay at the highest visual quality it's going to be done at 720p.

That is incorrect, unequivocally. Optimal bitrate for a given source and compression scheme is optimal, and higher than optimal isn't better, it's just bigger.

I really do not understand what you are referring to. It can't be the bitrate of the encode to mp4 as I stated there was a massive decrease in bitrate between source and encode. Are you refering to the bitrates youtube streams at? If so I'm not sure you realize what bitrates content streams at on youtube. 1080p on youtube streams at 6-8Mbps. 720p, last I knew, streams at 3-4Mbps. My source is 80Mbps. I encode to 12Mbps for upload. I find it hard to believe that any degradation occurring due to upsizing would matter within this situation. Especially so given the comparison tests I've been doing through this entire process(frame by frame comparison between each source and encode). Given this math, these facts, I came to the conclusion I hold and really don't understand by what measure you find dispute with them as I thought I understood the fundamentals of video encoding and basics of efficiency between codecs. I'm going to upload the 720p render I made to youtube just to be certain.

Speaking of other forums, maybe you'll want to head over to doom9, and dive into the wonderful world of AviSynth, MeGUI, and QTGMC (all free). Kind of on the leading edge when it comes to resizing. Beware though, newbie=snack at doom9. Best of luck.

Thank you for the advise. I'd heard of AviSynth and MeGUI a little but not of QTGMC. I'll definitely give them a try after I resolve some lingering issues in visual quality that occurs before I upsize.

[LastQuestion]

Your average gamer shouldn't be upscaling video.

Have you considered what will happen to the non-1080p versions of the video if you upload an upscaled version. Take the 720p version, for example. Ordinarily, YouTube would take it as it, or possibly re-encode it. But if you give it a blown-up 1080p version, it will have to scale it back down again, introducing another level of losslessness.

The average console gamer doesn't capture. Those that do typically use the HD PVR which, iirc, capture via component at 5Mbps in mp4. For them resizing would be pointless. There are a variety of capture cards used by console gamers. I use the Black Magic Intensity Pro which is also quite popular. it captures near raw avi essentially providing lossless capture.

[Deleted User 13735]

1. Black Magic Intensity? This is the first time you've mentioned "that!" As in YUV 4:2:2? Maybe even 10 bit CBR? And you are taking up the forum's time complaining that Handbrake x264 at 8 bit 4:2:0 has much better compression?? Game called because everyone has left the stadium.

2. If you uploaded 720p at 8 Mbps (a higher-than-optimal, mathematically "failsafe" bitrate), you would need 21.36 Mbps at 1080p to get the same quality, but never better. And that's not with upsized material, but with pristine source video at both resolutions. That's the math.

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

With that, I'm bowing out of this thread, which has become intolerably boring. Best of luck in your journey.

[Deleted User 11865]

If you uploaded 720p at 8 Mbps (a higher-than-optimal, mathematically "failsafe" bitrate), you would need 21.36 Mbps at 1080p to get the same quality, but never better.

By what standard? Bits per pixel?

@LastQuestion: you can either use the CLI or upscale outside of HandBrake with a GUI application of your choice.