MP4 Audio Sync Problems w/ WDTV

General questions or discussion about HandBrake, Video and/or audio transcoding, trends etc.
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kamil
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:46 am

MP4 Audio Sync Problems w/ WDTV

Post by kamil »

A two part question;
1)
With the loss of Target Size, what would now be the best way to figure out how large files will be after conversion? The problem for me is that I have a *lot* of video content at various size; 640x480, 1280x720, 1920x1080 and a bunch other in between. Videos are obviously different lengths. That said, could someone explain to me what the 'RF' slider does with the absence of Target Size and I could roughly calculate my video sizes? I don't mind a 5% difference, so as long as my 2hour 720p videos are under 3gb.

2)
I have a Western Digital TV device I bought for my dad and rest of the house to use. Its this one; http://i42.tinypic.com/rk4i2f.jpg

What I'm trying to do is to create movies using the x264 encoder with the MKV container. I try to keep my 2 hour movies at 720p between 2.5 and 3gb in file size. In version 0.95 using a target size of 3gb with 'High Profile' I typically saw 2 hour movies get converted down to around 2.6gb. The problem is that those converted movies gave me errors when playing them back in VLC; pressing the fast forward button in order to skip 10 or so seconds caused the movie to flash and would actually go back by a fraction of a second. Rewind however works fine. On the WDTV the movies played back fine and fast forwarding proved successful, but not in VLC. When I try using the .m4v container, the videos playback perfectly fine in VLC (with the added bonus of being recognized in Quicktime) but the files are completely botched when playing back on the WDTV; fast forwarding causes the audio to go out of sync (I'm fairly sure for all instances including in MKV I was using AAC Core Audio).

Is there a 'universal' preset which will give me strong compression but full compatibility across all my devices? I've got cash reserved for a Boxee Box, I'm hoping I don't run into problems with any of my formats on that either when I buy it. Or is there something else in my settings I'm doing wrong? I pretty much only use the 'High Profile' preset without any tweaks in the advanced tab.

Thanks for any and all help :)

*UPDATE*

I've done around 10 conversions with slightly different settings each time trying to use the mp4 container. The files playback fine on the computer and also give me thumbnail previews in OS X (MKV does not unless I have Perian installed and set the files to be opened with Quicktime, thereby disabling VLC being the default application). However, I noticed that all movies encoded into the mp4 container gave me major audio sync problems when playing back on the WDTV. In VLC playback was fine. However scanning through the movie (jumping from the 10 minute to the 11, then 12 then 13 minute mark and so on) was really choppy. Using the MKV container is a whole different story, playback is *very* fast.

But more importantly, Audio Sync is perfect when playing back on the WDTV.

1) What could possibly be causing the audio delay/sync problems with the mp4 format?
2) Is the mkv container technically than the mp4 counterpart?
3) Should I stick to the MKV container, even if thumbnails arent natively supported in OS X or playback in Quicktime (without Perian)?
Last edited by kamil on Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.
copx
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Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:56 pm

Re: Optimizing for WDTV & Target Size

Post by copx »

A.) The output file size of "Constant quality" encodes cannot be predicted, not even roughly. You will have to use "Avg bitrate".
B.) Handbrake "High profile" encodes are incompatible with many players. "Universal" is an option, but the compression level will be much lower. "Apple TV" (not "Apple TV 2") is a possible alternative, there is a good chance that your WD TV is compatible with that, too.
C.) If the video stream and all the audio streams use average bitrate mode you can calculate the resulting file size.
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Rodeo
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Re: Optimizing for WDTV & Target Size

Post by Rodeo »

If you're playing the file locally (not streaming), the High Profile and AppleTV 2 presets are a good start. I would do the following changes:

1) set the container to MKV

2) drop the AAC track (the AC3 track is enough)

3) for Blu-ray sources, disable Decomb and Detelecine
musicvid
Veteran User
Posts: 3718
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 1:19 am

Re: Optimizing for WDTV & Target Size

Post by musicvid »

WDTV Live should handle anything you throw at it, as long as your network bandwidth is good an there is not a lot of other network traffic.
You may have one of the "awful" firmware versions on your WDTV Live. Check the internet forums for plenty of discussion...

Main Profile (lower compression) is always easier on players and dlna connections, if you can tolerate a bit larger files.
kamil
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:46 am

Re: Optimizing for WDTV & Target Size

Post by kamil »

Rodeo wrote:If you're playing the file locally (not streaming), the High Profile and AppleTV 2 presets are a good start. I would do the following changes:

1) set the container to MKV

2) drop the AAC track (the AC3 track is enough)

3) for Blu-ray sources, disable Decomb and Detelecine
I've done around 10 conversions with slightly different settings each time trying to use the mp4 container. The files playback fine on the computer and also give me thumbnail previews in OS X (MKV does not unless I have Perian installed and set the files to be opened with Quicktime, thereby disabling VLC being the default application). However, I noticed that all movies encoded into the mp4 container gave me major audio sync problems when playing back on the WDTV. In VLC playback was fine. However scanning through the movie (jumping from the 10 minute to the 11, then 12 then 13 minute mark and so on) was really choppy. Using the MKV container is a whole different story, playback is *very* fast.

But more importantly, Audio Sync is perfect when playing back on the WDTV.

1) What could possibly be causing the audio delay/sync problems with the mp4 format?
2) Is the mkv container technically than the mp4 counterpart?
3) Should I stick to the MKV container, even if thumbnails arent natively supported in OS X or playback in Quicktime (without Perian)?
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Rodeo
HandBrake Team
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Re: MP4 Audio Sync Problems w/ WDTV

Post by Rodeo »

WD TV doesn't support variable framerate MP4. Use Same as source, Constant Framerate instead.

But if the WD TV is your primary playback device, you should use the MKV container anyway.
kamil
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:46 am

Re: MP4 Audio Sync Problems w/ WDTV

Post by kamil »

Rodeo wrote:WD TV doesn't support variable framerate MP4. Use Same as source, Constant Framerate instead.

But if the WD TV is your primary playback device, you should use the MKV container anyway.
I've been using same as source for all my files (regardless of the situation). I've also tried Constant Framerate and it doesnt seem to work. The WDTV isnt the primary source, but it is a frequently used source by my dad, I want to make things easy for him on the WDTV as well as on any other device, be it a laptop with VLC or Quicktime or eventually the Boxee Box, which will probably be primary source.

I'm going to try the Constant Framerate once more with another movie file, if it doesnt work I think I'm going to stick to MKV, it seems to be the least problematic save for Quicktime playback (I have no intentions on installing Perian if I have VLC).

Thanks for the tip though.
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Rodeo
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Re: MP4 Audio Sync Problems w/ WDTV

Post by Rodeo »

Odd. Is it a WDTV Live (what I've been testing)?
kamil
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:46 am

Re: MP4 Audio Sync Problems w/ WDTV

Post by kamil »

Rodeo wrote:Odd. Is it a WDTV Live (what I've been testing)?
Nope, its just a regular WD TV (not sure if its a 1st or 2nd gen).

I tried converting another movie with the following settings;

http://ungraphic.com/stuff/handbrake/HB_1.jpg
http://ungraphic.com/stuff/handbrake/HB_2.jpg
http://ungraphic.com/stuff/handbrake/HB_3.jpg
http://ungraphic.com/stuff/handbrake/HB_4.jpg
http://ungraphic.com/stuff/handbrake/HB_5.jpg

I couldnt use AC3 for audio encoding, it gave me the .m4v container. The results were the same, audio is out of sync on the WD TV but fine on the computer via VLC although scanning through the video is a little jerky. MKV seems to playback perfectly across all devices except Quicktime (no support unless Perian is installed).
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Rodeo
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Re: MP4 Audio Sync Problems w/ WDTV

Post by Rodeo »

MP4 files can have several file extensions, including .mp4 and .m4v. They're still MP4 files. IIRC the WD TV Live will happily play files with .m4v extensions; otherwise, you can just rename the file to .mp4 or enable "always use .mp4" in Preferences.

Core Audio is the better AAC encoder - don't use the ffmpeg AAC encoder under OS X, please.

Detelecine and decomb are unnecessary for most HD sources.

Regarding the desync issue, I guess the Live unit is less buggy than older versions.
kamil
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:46 am

Re: MP4 Audio Sync Problems w/ WDTV

Post by kamil »

Rodeo wrote:MP4 files can have several file extensions, including .mp4 and .m4v. They're still MP4 files. IIRC the WD TV Live will happily play files with .m4v extensions; otherwise, you can just rename the file to .mp4 or enable "always use .mp4" in Preferences.

Core Audio is the better AAC encoder - don't use the ffmpeg AAC encoder under OS X, please.

Detelecine and decomb are unnecessary for most HD sources.

Regarding the desync issue, I guess the Live unit is less buggy than older versions.
I tried all sorts of audio formats for sound, none of them seemed to work. That was just one shot. I think I converted the movie file about 20 times with different settings for mp4, none seem to work.

You're probably right though, that the WDTV unit I have is buggy. I think there are custom firmware hacks for it, which I may give it a shot and see if that helps. Although, I'm a little worried that it may break something in the process (ie; HFS format support for my dad's external hard drive, he's got all his movies on it that he connects to the WDTV)

Thanks for the help though :)
musicvid
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Re: MP4 Audio Sync Problems w/ WDTV

Post by musicvid »

I can't comment on your older WDTV, but I agree with Rodeo about the WDTV Live. Plays almost anything you can throw at it (except some intraframe AVI and MOV formats).
mithrandir
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Re: MP4 Audio Sync Problems w/ WDTV

Post by mithrandir »

I have your version of the WDTV (pre-Live). I always use MKV since I had various problems and glitches playing back MP4, M4V files.

If you have audio sync issues check the firmware version of your WDTV. The best firmware version for avoiding audio sync issues is 1.02.03. At least that's my experience after testing 6+ different versions.

If you have a newer firmware version on your WDTV you'll need to take an extra step to install the older firmware version 1.02.03. Edit the wdtv.ver file that comes with the 1.02.03 firmware package and change the version to something that's higher than the one you have installed (e.g. 1.04.00). This is needed to force the WDTV to install the older firmware.
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