Necessary feedback on the forums (Got a gripe? Keep it here)

[mkelley]

No, I wasn't arguing about the logs, just the position that jbr was taking vis a vis helpful users (such as yourself). I think the poster's argument that he wasn't looking for dev help was a good one -- I'm actually somewhat embarrassed when I get an answer from them when all I'm looking for is a fellow user to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about <g>.

[jbrjake]

No, I wasn't arguing about the logs, just the position that jbr was taking vis a vis helpful users (such as yourself).

Err...actually, I was including mduell in that count of 15 team members. He's a part of the team as much as anyone else, even though he doesn't have a forum rank. He donates bandwidth for every release and has been on our IRC channel for years.

[dynaflash]

These are the HandBrake forums, good or bad. They are offered by handbrake admins, devs mods and testers ... user participation is encouraged * as long as the rules are followed*.

The internet is full of B.S. If you want horribly inaccurate guides and advice on hb just use google. But this needs to be the one place where people can be at least fairly rest assured that the advice/help given is remotely accurate, no matter how painful it may be to get said advice/help.

It could be noted that a couple years ago the dev's and mods decided to leave the hb forums to the users ... it lasted I think almost two months and the forums became total anarchy. Amusing reading to be sure but as far as any kind of a help repository ... worthless. Many instances of 20 threads asking the same question with answers ranging from accurate to ridiculously insane.

[dynaflash]

No, I wasn't arguing about the logs, just the position that jbr was taking vis a vis helpful users (such as yourself).

Err...actually, I was including mduell in that count of 15 team members. He's a part of the team as much as anyone else, even though he doesn't have a forum rank. He donates bandwidth for every release and has been on our IRC channel for years.

... and if you think HB's mods and devs can bite ... you really need to see mduell in action on irc .

[bilvihur]

I've read your reply, and I can only surmise that your spent 10-15 minutes coming up with all the statistics about who helps who, who doesn't provide helpful info, and why you rejected my post because I was unable to intuit a similar problem from the FAQ's. 15 minutes of HandBrake development time was wasted. Yet, had my post been published, it would have taken you, or another reader, less than a minute to refer me to the "Title and Chapter" section of the documentation. I'll let your actions speak for themselves. Once again, it's a great product!

[jbrjake]

I've read your reply, and I can only surmise that your spent 10-15 minutes coming up with all the statistics about who helps who, who doesn't provide helpful info, and why you rejected my post because I was unable to intuit a similar problem from the FAQ's. 15 minutes of HandBrake development time was wasted. Yet, had my post been published, it would have taken you, or another reader, less than a minute to refer me to the "Title and Chapter" section of the documentation. I'll let your actions speak for themselves. Once again, it's a great product!

You're more than welcome to suggest ways by which I might improve my time management skills, but I would like to point out:

1: As I was responding to you, I was engaged in support and testing of the decomb filter with another user on IRC. You can verify this on the IRC log. I was checking the forum while doing test encodes and waiting for the user to respond to questions.

2: It took more like 5 minutes than 15.

3: As I am the person who took the time to write the "Title and Chapter" section of the documentation as well as wrote the FAQ entry on choosing titles for TV episodes, I'm not sure "I'll let your actions speak for themselves" is quite as hard hitting of a remark as you intended it to be.

[Da Man]

I've read your reply, and I can only surmise that your spent 10-15 minutes coming up with all the statistics about who helps who, who doesn't provide helpful info, and why you rejected my post because I was unable to intuit a similar problem from the FAQ's. 15 minutes of HandBrake development time was wasted. Yet, had my post been published, it would have taken you, or another reader, less than a minute to refer me to the "Title and Chapter" section of the documentation. I'll let your actions speak for themselves. Once again, it's a great product!

This post completely encapsulates and demonstrates the current problem with users of this forum. It's none of your business how little time, how much time, or whatever JBRJake uses his time for (and trust me - you don't want to know what he does during encodes). If the Handbrake devs are going to spend their private time to develop this application and also host a forum and provide advice for FREE, the LEAST you can do is read the FAQ and guide prior to posting. I know it's an extra hour or two that could be used encoding "G-Force" for your next play date, but seriously..... It's all their asking.

[MasterFramer]

I registered just to say this: I have been using Handbrake for a few weeks, and have read the forums on several occasions to learn about the features. What is striking is that almost every single tech support thread I've come across here is filled with the most pompous, arrogant, dismissive juveniles I've ever come across online - which is saying a lot.

Granted, the response to the question is usually there, but they are usually hidden deep in the threads, surrounded by several posts with unnecessary vitriol and wild ad hominem tangents, and always accompanied with different variations of "USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION N00B," but with less finesse. What's most shocking, is that at least one of these people appears to be an active Handbrake developer.

It is sad to see such a fine program being tarnished by the worst tech support community in the open source world - again, that's saying a lot.

Call me a troll and perma-ban me - but this had to be said.

As for the program, it's great. I was in the scene as a ripper about ten (!) years ago - that was the time when VBR and 2-pass encoding were being rolled out -, and only recently started (re-)encoding personal stuff due to PS3 requiring it. I'm glad to see that the need for 5+ programs to encode a movie properly has pretty much disappeared thanks to tools like Handbrake.

Im trying to post a question and it keeps getting rejected. I understand why it got rejected the first time, not including the logfile info, but after I re post and paste in the logfile my post gets rejected again with the same copy and paste reply. How about some more info? Im just trying to get some guidance. I have seen MULTIPLE posts here asking for help without the stupid logfile. That dumb thing is huge! Plus it has my directory structure with user names littered throughout. Why do you need that info? From now on if anyone asks me about encoding ill let them know how cool handbreak is, but the people that run the forums will not help you, in fact they will block you from getting help from other users. Nice.

[JohnAStebbins]

It's very rare that a quick answer can be given to a support question without an activity log. They contain volumes of information that would take forever to extract from a user. Every single line is important (except when some error repeats a brazillion times ). We ask for it in order to help you better and not waste our time (the latter being the most important). I'm sorry your subsequent posts were rejected. I didn't see them, so I can't comment on the reason they were rejected. But I know the moderators don't reject randomly, so I suggest reading the rules and guidelines for getting support more carefully for something you missed.

[dynaflash]

That dumb thing is huge! Plus it has my directory structure with user names littered throughout.

Well if your user name is your first and last name then you should probably do a quick search and replace in any decent text editor to something less personal before posting it.

The rest is exactly what j45 said, to stop from having to do 20 questions to get what one activity log can easily answer and typically much more accurately.

[andyhutch1947]

I just registered with HandBrake a couple hours ago and somehow found myself reading this page. I realize it was posted in October 2009 but this thread really bothers me. Why Rodney, do you think you can talk to someone, business related or not, and not be polite and respectful to people. I have been around the internet for probably longer than you are old and I have seen a huge change in the way people communicate with each other when not face to face. The same is true when communicating over the phone. People are more rude and disrespectful when they are not face to face with the person they are communicating with. Do a research on the subject and you may be surprised that this so true. Do you think that if you donate your free time with your church, the boy scouts, the American Red Cross and thousands of other non-profit and for profit companies that you can treat people as you wish? You would be gone in a second if you acted this way. Your actions, on and off the job, are viewed by many companies as being the same. I am retired and did own my own company for many years. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, the employees that had the biggest problems in customer relations were those under the age of 30. My best and most productive employees were under 30 years of age also. But no matter how good they were on the job they knew that if they screwed up off the job, their position was in jeopardy. Rodney you seem to be carrying a big chip on your shoulders. Only you know why you act this way and say the things that you do but it is very apparent to me. Making statements like you have made here does no one any good. I think that offering this section on the forum is asking for trouble and is a negative reflection for the HandBrake community. I personally wish that I never had read this string as I now have a preconceived idea of you and how I might expect to be spoke to. I am sorry about this.

I feel like a second class citizen and am already thinking about how first communication.

I posted a question about a problem that I was having with HB and after a couple hours I didn't see it even posted so I know I [Censored] off someone like you but I posted it again because I thought what if it wasn't received by the forum. My iMac is sitting idle with HB still open awaiting for some help. Why do you think that the moderators are the only ones able to respond to question? I do not understand this concept. Help is help to me. Will I have to wait till tomorrow for someone to see my posts. I included everything I could find in my computer to include in my post, to the best of my ability. I think you should charge for your product, not ask for a donation. Get paid for your hard work, don't work for free for this type of work. By doing this you will make money if you are selling a good product and you won't if you aren't offering a good product. Also, if you mistreat your customers and run them off you won't make any money either. Then the owner will have to fire those who interfere with sales because of their temperament.

I can't believe I have spent this much time on this thread.

Please wish me luck on using HB in the future. I hope this relationship will last for a long happy time.

Andy

[s55]

I posted a question about a problem that I was having with HB and after a couple hours I didn't see it even posted so I know I [Censored] off someone like you but I posted it again because I thought what if it wasn't received by the forum.

It got delayed on the moderation queue due to lack of people around to process the queue. It's posted now. If a post gets rejected, you automatically get an email telling you the reason why. If you don't receive one, it's likely just waiting in the queue (which usually isn't more than a few hours)

[jbrjake]

I think you should charge for your product, not ask for a donation. Get paid for your hard work, don't work for free for this type of work. By doing this you will make money if you are selling a good product and you won't if you aren't offering a good product. Also, if you mistreat your customers and run them off you won't make any money either. Then the owner will have to fire those who interfere with sales because of their temperament.

Problem 1: If we charged, someone would just make the binary available for free and users would continue to not pay.

Problem 2a: Seeing how the list of authors for HandBrake has 22 names in it, there would be 22 "owners."
Problem 2b: Those owners are the very people you want to fire for their temperament. You really think people are going to fire themselves?

Problem 3: Brain drain much? If you fire all the programmers and administrators, guess what? There's no living project left to make money off of anyway.

Problem 4a: It is incredibly naive, and rather ironic for someone claiming age-related authority, to make such a specious claim as that "you will make money if you are selling a good product and you won't if you aren't offering a good product." Surely you are familiar with VHS vs BetaMax? Market success depends on a multitude of factors beyond--and many times in spite of--product quality.
Problem 4b: You are contradicting yourself. You are declaring in one breath that "you will make money if you are selling a good product" and in the next that sales depend on customer relations...which has no bearing on product quality.

Protip: You might also want to google Rodney, his age, and his experience in the business world before you choke on your foot.

[Da Man]

Andy - A couple of things (please note I am only a user and am not a dev, mod, or site manager)
-You make the mistake like many others of comparing this to a money-making venture. It's not. And to compare it to the Red Cross, etc. is wrong on so many levels and you know it.
-I'm curious - how much time did you take to actually read the ENTIRE Handbrake wiki, then perform searches, do a little trial-and-error, and just spend a few hours trolling the forum learning and absorbing? Bet not much.
-Your age is irrelevant, and so is Rodney's. What is relevant is you, like many others, don't want to learn, don't want to practice, and don't want to experiment; just try a few times, run up against a roadblock, and 'demand' an answer as to why you can't get your DVD onto (insert device here).

I've been on this board probably as many months as you are years old (do you like that flipped around?), and it seems people are becoming more demanding and less cordial in searching for their answers. As stated ad nauseam, the people donate their time, money, and resources to keep handbrake improving and the board running.

What you and so many others do is analogous to the following - If I let you use my lawnmower and owner's manual for FREE, and you can't seem to set the blade height properly, which of the following is probably more helpful in obtaining the information you require-

A) The answer has probably been published throughout the manufacturer's help section of their website?
B) Any number of neighbors might know provided you follow their rules when you walk onto their property to ask?
C) It's probably stated quite clearly in the literature provided?
D) Walk in to their house, either read and ignore their household rules or ignore them entirely without reading the house rules at all, open their door and yell in to the house you want an answer, and then when ANYONE is disturbed or perturbed by your actions, scream and whine that they aren't good people and that somehow, your fusking lawn is their problem?

You, my friend, strike my as a 'D' kind of a person, along with many others here. I've said it before and I'll say it again - sometime in the (near) future, people are going to wonder why handbrake is a privately developed program and can only be obtained on macupdate or bittorrent and there is no official help site. And to those people, I say 'Good luck'.

[thompson]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - sometime in the (near) future, people are going to wonder why handbrake is a privately developed program and can only be obtained on macupdate or bittorrent and there is no official help site. And to those people, I say 'Good luck'.

Amen. I've been trying to get a little more active in the forums here as my knowledge of handbrake has increased -- I don't know if I could handle being a mod or developer, the vitriol and whiney attitudes directed at them would just be too much for me.

I think the problem is that people don't understand that video encoding isn't analogous to putting a cassette into your VCR... there is no "right" answer (though there are many "wrong" ones). It's always heartening to see the occasional post by someone who did read around, experiment, etc. and who posts with an activity log. You know what they get? Help. Rather quickly. I've seen developers roll out a patch to the svn hours after someone posted a problem they were having. The only ones who get snark are those who deserve snark.

[dynaflash]

You know what they get? Help. Rather quickly. I've seen developers roll out a patch to the svn hours after someone posted a problem they were having.

Oddly right after reading your post I came across this one http://forum.handbrake.fr/viewtopic.php ... 431#p76955
Elapsed time from source sample to svn fix (actually the svn fix was before John posted in the forum) one hour thirty five minutes or so. Of course this is not the norm, but illustrates efforts *are* made.