Necessary feedback on the forums (Got a gripe? Keep it here)

General questions or discussion about HandBrake, Video and/or audio transcoding, trends etc.
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JohnAStebbins
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Re: Necessary feedback on the forums (Got a gripe? Keep it here)

Post by JohnAStebbins »

Is the current economic malaise the fault of Obama the socialist or Bush the facist?
I blame Theodore Roosevelt.
Da Man
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Re: Necessary feedback on the forums (Got a gripe? Keep it here)

Post by Da Man »

So you wanna go old school.... I think I'll stick with the commies that took us off of the gold standard.

(Illuminati and Freemason conspirators need not apply to this discussion)
jmac99
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Re: Necessary feedback on the forums (Got a gripe? Keep it here)

Post by jmac99 »

thanks handbrake for making this program virtually unusable for windows/premiere users. if you charged for this program you would be losing money

until AVI or WMV comes back into play, this program is just dust in my hard drive.
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s55
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Re: Necessary feedback on the forums (Got a gripe? Keep it here)

Post by s55 »

Pretty sure we included an uninstaller.

Also, Mp4/mkv are not mac specific formats.
Finally, HandBrake has never been suitable for use with editing apps, even when it did have AVI.
jbrjake
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Re: Necessary feedback on the forums (Got a gripe? Keep it here)

Post by jbrjake »

jmac99 wrote:if you charged for this program you would be losing money
How would we be losing money if we charged for this program and you chose not to purchase it because it did not meet your needs? Please elaborate.

Are you saying you would purchase it, and then ask for a refund? What if we applied a "no backsies" policy and refused refunds?

Clearly, there is more ground to cover here. Do you have a mailing list we could subscribe to for further business plan recommendations?
Da Man
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Re: Necessary feedback on the forums (Got a gripe? Keep it here)

Post by Da Man »

Microsoft charges for a program that crashes on most people at one time or another.... And they are doing quite well, last time I checked.
Deleted User 13735

Re: Necessary feedback on the forums (Got a gripe? Keep it here)

Post by Deleted User 13735 »

I blame Theodore Roosevelt.
How can you say that when it was really FDR?
:wink:
Da Man
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Re: Necessary feedback on the forums (Got a gripe? Keep it here)

Post by Da Man »

Have to agree. New Deal started it. All the way.

And folks, I still hold out hope. We can get this thread locked. Work with me. What do we need to bring up? Abortion? The 2nd amendment? Marijuana legalization laws? Rush Limbaugh? Death Panels? Sarah Palin (you naughty cougar, Sarah)?

These are just a few of the many, many topics available. Holocaust or Holo-hoax (OK, that one is going a little over the line, but you get my point - and, yes, I believe it happened)? Windows vs OSX vs Linux? Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge? Old vs New Coke? Together, we can get this shut down.
TedC
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Re: Necessary feedback on the forums (Got a gripe? Keep it here)

Post by TedC »

Chuck Norris wouldn't lock this thread - he'd fly a huey to all of the offending posters houses and round kick them out of existence.
baggss
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Re: Necessary feedback on the forums (Got a gripe? Keep it here)

Post by baggss »

Da Man wrote:Sarah Palin (you naughty cougar, Sarah)
A hot faciest. You gotta love it!

I'll close the thread. For $500. I take PayPal.
Da Man
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Re: Necessary feedback on the forums (Got a gripe? Keep it here)

Post by Da Man »

Please. Chuck Norris??!! Tom Selleck's mustache could kick his ass any time, day or night. And then drive off with a hot blond in a ferrari.
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bizzyb0t
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Re: Necessary feedback on the forums (Got a gripe? Keep it h

Post by bizzyb0t »

I'm am upset and outright appalled that no one has suggested they change the name of HandBrake to HandJob. It's a tragedy, really. :lol:
Deleted User 11865

Re: Necessary feedback on the forums (Got a gripe? Keep it h

Post by Deleted User 11865 »

bizzyb0t wrote:I'm am upset and outright appalled that no one has suggested they change the name of HandBrake to HandJob. It's a tragedy, really. :lol:
It's already been suggested on IRC, but it's never been approved :-)
mkelley
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Re: Necessary feedback on the forums (Got a gripe? Keep it h

Post by mkelley »

I know something that ALWAYS shuts down threads -- Mike Nelson versus Joel Hodgson (and, BTW, it's no contest -- not only was Mike the head writer during all of Joel's years, but after Joel left MST3K was better than ever).
kaizoku0506
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Re: Necessary feedback on the forums (Got a gripe? Keep it h

Post by kaizoku0506 »

I've been using handbrake for a few years now (on OS X 10.4, 10.5, and now on 10.6.2 with 2.4GHz dual core Intel CPU and 4 Gigs 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM) and have always loved it! That is up until 0.9.4. This new update is horrible! I would be more specific, but I would most definitely be banned for voicing my true feelings on the topic. 0.9.3 had its quirks to be sure, but downloading VLC was a small price to pay for its benefits. It only used about 20% of my CPU and maybe 4% of my RAM. 0.9.4 is using 96% of my CPU and 15% of my RAM. Not to mention the fact that a TV show that I ripped in 20 minutes this morning is taking 2 hours and 36 minutes to rip with this new version. I don't care if H.264 IS nicer than XviD. This is HORRIBLE! I'm not waiting 2.5 hours and clogging up my system for a 30 minute TV episode. Ban me from writing again if you want, but I'm downgrading until these issues are fixed. This new version is horrendous.
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Re: Necessary feedback on the forums (Got a gripe? Keep it h

Post by Deleted User 11865 »

kaizoku0506 wrote:It only used about 20% of my CPU and maybe 4% of my RAM. 0.9.4 is using 96% of my CPU and 15% of my RAM.
If Xvid and FFmpeg's MPEG-4 encoder were properly threaded and optimized, they would be using 100% of your CPU too.
kaizoku0506 wrote:Not to mention the fact that a TV show that I ripped in 20 minutes this morning is taking 2 hours and 36 minutes to rip with this new version. I don't care if H.264 IS nicer than XviD. This is HORRIBLE! I'm not waiting 2.5 hours and clogging up my system for a 30 minute TV episode.
Maybe your computer is slow. You may be using slow settings as well. x264 can me made quite a bit faster if you change the right settings (while still providing better quality than Xvid).
kaizoku0506 wrote:Ban me from writing again if you want, but I'm downgrading until these issues are fixed.
Won't be necessary. Just note that the points you raised aren't considered issues, it's the intended behavior (i.e. HandBrake should use as much CPU as it can, and x264 is slow if you use slow settings), and therefore won't get "fixed".
kaizoku0506 wrote:This new version is horrendous.
Feel free to use 0.9.3 all you want. It's not supported anymore, so we won't answer 0.9.3-related questions, but nothing prevents you from using it.
Da Man
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Re: Necessary feedback on the forums (Got a gripe? Keep it h

Post by Da Man »

Do you all mind if we get back to what's important now? Getting this thread shut down? Eye on the prize, folks. Eye on the prize.
navstar
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Re: Necessary feedback on the forums (Got a gripe? Keep it h

Post by navstar »

I'm a new Handbrake user and was looking forward to browsing this forum. You know, they say first impressions are lasting. I get a real cranky vibe from both sides of the fence here. At best, it's curt. At worst, it's downright hostile.

I'm sure users post many repeat or simple questions that could be solved if they put a little effort into it. And I'm sure admins/devs get annoyed at the thankless whiners. OSS is a tough line of work. And programming for video standards is incredibly complicated.

But seriously, both sides need a nap. It's not pleasant and it sure isn't professional. Can both sides strive a little harder to be more patient and less [Censored]?
mkelley
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Re: Necessary feedback on the forums (Got a gripe? Keep it h

Post by mkelley »

If I had to venture a guess, navstar, I'd say it's because Handbrake is a labor of love -- no money (and where does the cost of the forum come from?) and darn few rewarding comments (mostly complaints). I can't really think of any comparable forum for any such product (even things which are free either allow donations, which this does not, or are working towards a paid program).

So you have a group of people toiling extremely hard and then people come here expecting the kind of support they get from most paid products and... yep, the developers here can be a trifle testy at times. Couple that with some truly idiotic questions (and, once again, from folks who don't really respect the volunteer work done) and you could get the wrong impression (I did, at first).

So, while I will in no way excuse the folks who have problems and an attitude, I can certainly cut the devs and mod here a tremendous amount of slack. Actually, at times I'm amazed they are as patient as they are (like with someone like me, who tries to offer advice when they know almost nothing about anything :>)
dynaflash
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Re: Necessary feedback on the forums (Got a gripe? Keep it h

Post by dynaflash »

I think one thing that is misunderstood by those that use hb and are ticked off at the attitude on the forums is this:

From *some* users perspective HandBrake is a right. Meaning that something is owed because they choose to use HB. Much like a commercial product which you pay for, demands certain responsibilities from those you paid for the product (ie. the company that furnished said product for a sum of money). HandBrake is OSS. And in the true sense of the meaning it is written by people that care to use it *for themselves*. On one hand this is a good thing for those that choose do download it and use it at no cost if it does what they need it to do. On the other hand it also means that you should not expect to get the kind of service and support like you should from a paid for, commercial product where the cost of that spoon fed support is figured into the cost of the product.

HandBrake is and as far as I am concerned, never will be a commercial product. Quite frankly and transparently the cost of the bandwidth for downloading HandBrake is absorbed by users who wish to give back to the community by providing bandwidth at their own cost to shoulder some of the heavy burden of making HandBrake available to the masses via a rotation script ( note at the time of this post 0.9.4 has 4,655,692 downloads in 4 months). They do not ask for recognition but do so to try to offer something back to a project that provides them with something useful.

Now for devs, I am one and can tell you that while I am aware of requests by the average HandBrake user I can also tell you that like every other dev I know of my time is limited. What that means is that I work on things that interest me like most devs, on my own free time as I see fit. It also means that support is second fiddle if not less. In other words the onus is put on the user to try to glean what they can from the docs and from their own research. This is the only price you pay for using HB. Due to the complexity of what HandBrake does, which is video transcoding from a myriad of sources, much work was done about two years ago to provide what we call "Activity Logs" to show what HB is actually doing, including what you set for settings, etc. This work was not done for us devs. It was done to provide a vehicle to allow average users to show us what they did, what their source was and what HB is doing in an effort to alleviate much of the "20 questions" game previously required to find out what issues a user was having. After that was accomplished we started making it mandatory to post an activity log to any support request on the forums so that time could used much more efficiently. Some have objected to this policy, but that is too bad. It is a much smaller hurdle to jump for decent and somewhat timely tech support than getting out your credit card for paid support.

Ultimately HandBrake (as well as many oss projects) is developed by the devs (for the record at the time of this post there are only 4 relatively regular devs for hb, and a handful more that contribute as they see fit) and for their personal use. Period. It is what is is. If you have skin in the game you can do freely what you wish with it. In some cases this has caused consternation by users requesting features that expect them to be implemented by HB's developers. This is how it is. Devs spend their free time as they see fit, time which is taken away from family, friends, and other obligations so therefore it is not unreasonable when this precious time is spent on things that interest the devs the most.

Having said that, it is worth noting that myself as well as some other HB devs have really been considering posting either nightlies or just snapshots and doing away with announced public releases. In other words HandBrake would still be available if you so wish, but it would be up to the user to go get what they need. Any documentation would likely be even more sparse and out of date.

In the end, it is my belief that like in most things, you hear way more from those that are angry than those that are happy with what you are trying to do. So really if HandBrake causes you that much angst and consternation, its probably best to look elsewhere. Really, its not like its a popularity contest or like it would cut into a companies "bottom line". Since there is no profit and no company there is no "bottom line" and if no one downloads HandBrake then .... meh. It means less work for dev's. In the end that is the cold hard truth. If HandBrake works for you then great, if not its a free world, use something else. No worries.
NotObvious
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Re: Necessary feedback on the forums (Got a gripe? Keep it h

Post by NotObvious »

I'll add my 0.02$CURRENCY here. I like HandBrake, it's faster and produces better output (in my opinion) than some of the commercial tools out there. Maybe it has some rough corners (I haven't found any I care about yet), maybe when I crank the settings up it takes 8 hours to process a 2 hour program, but hey - I'm getting what I paid for. More to the point, if it is going to take 8 hours I'll kick it off and go to bed.

Then again, I've done (and still do) provide support on forums and mailing lists. I understand that things like this are a labour of love and that too many people assume that they're the most important person in the world. To those people I just want to say - get over yourself :roll: To the devs I just want to say - thanks :D
bilvihur
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Re: Necessary feedback on the forums (Got a gripe? Keep it h

Post by bilvihur »

Last week, I tried to post a request for help to get HandBrake to convert multiple chapters/episodes in a Video_TS folder. I was not requesting the HandBrake Development Team to drop their work to help; rather I was hoping that another user could put me on the right track. Therefore, I didn't submit an Activity Log. My post never made it onto the forum. I subsequently found the Title drop-down menu and solved my problem. The point I'd like to make is that many problems can be answered by other users without any action/involvement of the developers, who can simply ignore posts without logs; but discarding the post altogether seems too harsh. Thank you, it is a great product! :)
jbrjake
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Re: Necessary feedback on the forums (Got a gripe? Keep it h

Post by jbrjake »

bilvihur wrote:Last week, I tried to post a request for help to get HandBrake to convert multiple chapters/episodes in a Video_TS folder. I was not requesting the HandBrake Development Team to drop their work to help; rather I was hoping that another user could put me on the right track. Therefore, I didn't submit an Activity Log. My post never made it onto the forum. I subsequently found the Title drop-down menu and solved my problem. The point I'd like to make is that many problems can be answered by other users without any action/involvement of the developers, who can simply ignore posts without logs; but discarding the post altogether seems too harsh. Thank you, it is a great product! :)
That might be the point you'd like to make, but the point you've actually made is that you like to waste people's time with redundant questions that have already been answered in the FAQ you're supposed to read before posting:
I'm encoding TV shows from DVDs, why am I only getting the first episode? ¶

Each episode is a separate title and has to be encoded separately. Select each title you want, then add it to the queue. Make sure you give each one a different file name, otherwise they will write over each other.
Whoever deleted your post was right to twice over.

And really, your argument that you weren't looking for a dev answer is disingenuous. Where is this army of users you're talking about? Have you even *looked* at the post counts on this forum? Our users do not contribute. Almost every single reply on this forum comes from team members. We have nearly 13,000 forum members. We have 70,099 posts. The top 15 users are all team members and have, collectively, 27,219 posts. Fifteen people resposible for 38.8% of the posts. That means the remaining 12,802 posters are responsible for 42,880 posts. That means our average non-team-member user has 3.34 posts. And we prune people who don't ever post or log in. To further drive this point home: the top 15 is an arbitrary cut off. There are developers and moderators under that, some with hundreds of posts, which means that the actual average user post count is even lower than 3. To put it yet another way: over 6,550 of our forum members have 1 or fewer posts to their name. That means, quite literally, that the majority of people here do not help people. Over 50% of the forum has posted once or less, and the top 15 team members give nearly 40% of the answers.
mkelley
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Re: Necessary feedback on the forums (Got a gripe? Keep it h

Post by mkelley »

Um, don't want to get any dev mad at me, but I do take issue with this point. I, too, have asked questions here not looking for dev response, but hoping perhaps a knowledgeable user would help and lo and behold that has actually happened (several times, in fact). Conversely, I've also tried to help (and, yes, I admit sometimes I've been less than helpful but I did *try* :>).

As someone who's modded many forums, the truth of the matter is that it's not a question of devs versus users but just active posters versus lurkers. ALL forums have that ratio -- I have thousands of members on all my forums and only a scant handful post, and out of those a small subset are helpful posts.

(And, yes, I realize the irony here is that this may not be a helpful post, but that just proves my point <g>)
mduell
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Re: Necessary feedback on the forums (Got a gripe? Keep it h

Post by mduell »

mkelley wrote:Um, don't want to get any dev mad at me, but I do take issue with this point. I, too, have asked questions here not looking for dev response, but hoping perhaps a knowledgeable user would help and lo and behold that has actually happened (several times, in fact). Conversely, I've also tried to help (and, yes, I admit sometimes I've been less than helpful but I did *try* :>).
It's not just the devs who want logs. The knowledgeable users want to see logs because they can easily find what they're looking for and they don't trust the statements of noobs (with good reason).
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