NO AUDIO?... Read Here! (Summary in First Post) **UPDATED**

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Cavalicious
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NO AUDIO?... Read Here! (Summary in First Post) **UPDATED**

Post by Cavalicious »

*** UPDATE *** July 29, 2007

As per Changeset 738, This issue is pretty much done with. Thanks to eddy for figuring out where/what the issue was and how to combat it.
jbrjake wrote: And here's his explanation of how it works/what the problem really is (short answer: it *is* caused by incorrectly mastered DVDs despite what 90% of the people in this thread have claimed):
http://handbrake.m0k.org/irclogs/handbr ... 2_pg1.html
NOTE: This being said, you should still run a Full Disc Extraction with MTR, due to success with Main Title is not 100% still.

How do I get the fix?

You could either wait for the next public release (not that far off), or you can compile the latest SVN.

For those of you that want to wait for the next public release, but need a "work-a-round" now...please keep reading.

___________________________________________________________


Ok, I know this is a Monster of a thread to be reading through, so I decided to put together a summary of sorts:

Issue at hand: No Audio – Stopped Audio – Missing Audio

When encoding some movies with HandBrake (either from DVD or ripped DVD folder on Hard Drive), one will notice a significant CPU utilization drop (from high 90% to around 30% or less). There will also be a drop in fps (Frames per Second). When this happens, the file produced by the encode will most likely have Audio completely drop out at some point in the movie.

Best Practice is for one to always check the encoded file by playing back in your preferred Player and skip through the file to verify sound. Typically, if you hear sound at the end (during the credits), your encode is fine. As once sound is dropped, it won’t come back again later on.

What causes this? / When will Handbrake fix this?

For 20+ pages there are plenty of opinions on both “who’s at fault” and “why it’s happening.” I will do my best to list what has been assessed:

1. Not everyone who uses HB run into this issue.

There have been plenty of reports that …”DVD xyz audio drops outs when encoded…” While someone else reports that the same DVD works fine for them.

2. My abc DVD reader give better results than reader xyz

This has very well been the case for some. Some would assess that some readers are more tolerant to the Protection Schemes / Mastering nuances of said DVDs. This too can be attributed to different Firmware/Chipsets. The following post covers this issue:
dynaflash wrote:One other thing you should all take note of, the type of dvd drive you have can (and for me has, on at least two occasions) make a difference.

I suggest reading this thread: http://www.ripdifferent.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=5097 over at the mtr forums ( you need to be registered on them, I believe). Since they are probably currently the foremost authorities on ripping for the mac.

If you dont want to register there, I will paraphrase parts of this post here from dvdrexer, one of the developers there regarding the [Censored] drives so common in Powerbooks and MacBooks:
I work for an Apple Service Provider/Mac Shop, and I see more problems from these drives than any other component of any Mac other than the Pro desktop.
He seems fairly qualified...
3) They generate RIP and burn errors in huge quantities compared to an internal Pioneer, NEC, Plextor, or other excellent quality drive
This is one of a list of 7 problems he sees with them.

There is alot more regarding this very subject if you do a search on their forums for "[Censored]". As a previous PowerBook and now MacBook Pro user I went ahead and bought an excellent Pioneer external firewire dvd drive and enclosure for a total of about 78 dollars. There are two disks (frankly, cant remember which ones right now) that I could not get mtr to rip using my internal [Censored] drive in my PowerBook. Popped em in the Pioneer drive and bang, ripped fine and encoded in HB no problem! I do not pretend to know the technical reasons for this, but I do know it worked.

That may possibly explain the reason why using a different machine worked, even if they were both [Censored], maybe different model numbers. Just an idea.

Now, if indeed, on the same machine, same drive, h.264 drops audio but ffmpeg doesnt, that is a clue for us and we will look into that as soon as we have time.

What I am trying to say is that there are a huge number of factors in trying to defeat copy protection, and that trying to narrow it down is like finding a needle in a haystack. If there is indeed a problem with HB we are looking into it as best we can. But it is very hard with dvd specific issues as developers do not have an inexhaustible supply of dvd's to test with, nor an inexhaustible supply of time with which to test.

HandBrakes Description:
HandBrake is an open-source, GPL-licensed, multiplatform, multithreaded DVD to MPEG-4 ripper/converter, available for MacOS X, Linux and Windows.
I am not speaking for the development team, but personally I feel it is fair to remove the "Ripper" part of HandBrakes description with the new copy protection schemes we are seeing. Again, just my opinion.

One other thought to ponder which rhester alluded to. The windows version requires that you run a separate dvd ripper for windows for HB to work. Using the latest version of AnyDVD, they have had literally no audio drops and the windows version uses exactly the same HB core that the mac version uses. You be the judge.
--Mind you, stated above are possible Work-a-Rounds and not solutions. Due to the fact for some, hardware wasn’t an issue.

3. Software abc produces a proper encode where as HB drops audio.

I’ve looked for a good post to summarize this statement, and came across this:
bhaal wrote:This shows that the way in which MTR uses the drive to rip the data that MF doesn't like and produces problems but the way in which MF uses the drive to rip the data is a way it likes.

It shows that the problem is not a fundamental flaw in MF's encoder.

The fact that it still happens when I use fairmount and DTOX to rip shows that it is not an MTR issue or at least not exclusively so…
--Basicly, “One mans garbage, is another mans treasure.” What HB doesn’t like with certain MTR rips (especially Main Feature rips) other encoders are tolerant. There has been plenty of examples were people tried to encode a MTR rip without success, but were able to rip AND encode with HB with success. As well as the fact that MTR Full Disk Extraction (basically copy of DVD) works majority of the time vs. a manipulated Main Feature Only rip.

…and just keep in mind:
bdkennedy1 wrote:God I hope this is figured out soon. I've only been able to use my AppleTV to watch TV shows.

And for those interested, I have the same audio dropouts with VisualHub.

Maybe it's ffmpegx? After all it hasn't been updated in over 6 months.
4. This is all fine, but how do I get a proper encode?

That’s the $10,000 question. As there are no “solutions” per se’, there are a few recommendations that worked for others (but not some):

1. Get an External ripper. Rather its MTR, AnyDVD, etc., you will be better off. HB can, and does, allow you to rip and encode DVDs (in some cases prevents the No Audio issue). But were external (read standalone) rippers must continually focus on new Protection Schemes, HB does not. HBs main focus is to take a “stable” DVD source and encode it (four ways from Sunday :smile: ). I reiterate, Developers of the project, aren’t in any way actively trying to combat DVD Protection.
2. In the case of MTR, it is highly recommended that you use the Full Disk Extraction. One thing you must remember/realize is the fact the MTR was/is being develop for a different niche of folks. Folks on the MTR Forum mainly use MTR for duplication of DVDs not encoding. Which is why, sometimes, a DVD rip may not encode correctly, but will transcode to DVD-R and play in DVD Players just fine. There are different processes for the 2 applications.
3. When need be, use DVD2OneX ver2 (DTOX2) you get rid of Zero Bite and/or Zero Duration cells. This will get one a more “stable” (read workable) source to begin with. In addition, exporting Movie Only in DTOX2 has worked wonders.
In closing, the purpose of the above summary/consolidation is to avoid the same question, statements, etc. being posted over and over again. At this point (22 pages later) I believe it is safe to say that there is very little new in terms of “I got No Audio when…” that can be posted. Almost every possible combination has been posted. I believe we should focus the next 22 pages on testing Work-a-Rounds, or even solutions.

By all means, please let me know if more should be added to this, or if things should be expanded on. I would like for this post to be a “one stop” for this thread, so people wouldn’t have to filter through nth pages of posts.


Software:

HandBrake
Mac the Ripper
DVD2One

Thanks,
~Cav
Last edited by Cavalicious on Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
dynaflash
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Post by dynaflash »

good documentation of the problem. Yes, I have had it happen myself. No, I dont know why it happens. We frankly not sure why it happens. Question if you really feel like doing some testing. Try HB 0.7.1 on the exact same file and see if it happens.
Cavalicious
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Post by Cavalicious »

Will try it now.
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Post by Cavalicious »

Hmmmmm....No utilization drop....Looking good thus far. Maybe Handbrake 0.8.0b2 should have been built off the tip of 0.7.1 and not 0.8.0b1? :?:
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Post by dynaflash »

Cavalicious wrote:Maybe Handbrake 0.8.0b2 should have been built off the tip of 0.7.1 and not 0.8.0b1? :?:
Well, there is really no Handbrake 0.8.0b2, I assume by that, you mean you have a newer version out of our svn. Which will be released as HandBrake 0.8.5.

And, that sounds good in theory, but very hard to do in practice.
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Post by Cavalicious »

dynaflash wrote:
Cavalicious wrote:Maybe Handbrake 0.8.0b2 should have been built off the tip of 0.7.1 and not 0.8.0b1? :?:
Well, there is really no Handbrake 0.8.0b2, I assume by that, you mean you have a newer version out of our svn. Which will be released as HandBrake 0.8.5.

And, that sounds good in theory, but very hard to do in practice.
Yes I do mean the new svn (sorry I didn't clarify). I understand your point, but just wondering if 0.7.1 does work (I'm @ 38% now), would it really be worth releasing 0.8.5 for new features, or has there been other tweaks that addressed this since the svn?
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Post by dynaflash »

Cavalicious wrote: I understand your point, but just wondering if 0.7.1 does work (I'm @ 38% now), would it really be worth releasing 0.8.5 for new features, or has there been other tweaks that addressed this since the svn?
Well, so far, frankly, we are still trying to pin it down. Since it is a dvd based issue (meaning it doesnt always happen on and depends on the dvd) it has taken us a while even to identify it.

As far as a release if we can't fix it. since we do have so many new features, we probably will release anyway so those that want to can use the newer features. As always we will leave past versions available for those that want to use them. But, I cannot speak for all of the devs on this one, those are just my thoughts on the issue. For my own testing, out of many many dvd's I have only had the problem on three or four when properly ripped with the latest mtr. So, that is for me, a pretty fair success rate.

But, it is, of course up to each user to decide for themselves.
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Post by Cavalicious »

Point taken...I thank you for your response. If it is a DVD media specific issue, and your run rate is high, I too believe its justify to release a Feature Pack.

That being said, I guess for those "few" DVDs that cause this, I can live with Stereo sound via an older Encoder.

Thanks Again!
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Post by cvk_b »

ripdifferent wrote:...went into R-14's Main Feature Mode, because it's really something special, all new from stem to stern, and remember, you DON'T USE DTOX: the Video_TS file is ready to burn as is, RIPped, Rebuilt and Reconstructed.
Try skipping step 2 and using 7.1
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Post by Cavalicious »

- Both cores utilization droped to ~35%. 1hr57min23sec into movie...no sound. So close, but nope. :x
Try skipping step 2 and using 7.1
Maybe tomorrow, it's 2:15am. Have a few more things to do before bed.
cbud
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Post by cbud »

I own this DVD and will give it a try using the exact same methods except on an iMac G5. Give me a couple of days.
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Post by cbud »

Cavalicious, what region is your Man on Fire disc?
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Post by petvas »

I have the exact same issue using the latest svn build. I dont think this is a dvd specific issue. I own two Macs, one iMac and a Macbook Pro. I tried ripping Star Wars 2 on my iMac and didnt work, on my Macbook Pro it works!
I also had a VIDEO_TS of the Film Closer, which works on my iMac but not on my Macbook Pro...
!!!!!
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Post by dynaflash »

Has anyone noticed that the dvd's that have issues produce an incorrect chapter count in HB ?

I just noticed it with Perl Harbor.

Two sets of output files.

1. MTR3.0 beta r14d (main feature rip ) -> HB = Dropped audio and fps. Plus HB showed 47 chapters for main title.

2. MTR 2.6.6 (main feature rip) -> HB = Perfect Audio, no fps drop, Plus HB showed 31 chapters for main title

Apple DVD Player shows 31 chapters for the main title. Same as the successful encode from the exact same dvd.

I am suspecting a pattern here. Anyone else that wants to , if they get dropped audio, fire HB back up and note the number of available chapters HB shows and compare to the actual number available on the dvd.

Just an idea here.
cbud
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Post by cbud »

This reminds me of something. Long time ago I did a Main Feature Extraction with MTR (13e) on a Star Trek episode and it had the wrong chapter count and cut out early. I had to rip the entire disc.

I think that the MTR team has specifically designed Main Feature Mode to go after the new discs and perhaps it is so tweaked it has problems on older ones. I rarely use Main Feature mode in 14d, usually only when MTR tells me to.
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Post by nightstrm »

I've talked about it in the irc channel, but I'll add my experience in here as well. I've been having the same problem ripping episodes off of my X-Files Season 1 DVD set. It rarely fails at the same point during the encoding, and it does not matter if I grab it directly from the DVD or using MtR.
Cavalicious
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Post by Cavalicious »

cbud wrote:Cavalicious, what region is your Man on Fire disc?
Region 1

Sorry, been busy last day or so. Please all, let me know if I need to do any more test.
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Post by Cavalicious »

Lets see if theis is a Universal vs. PPC thing. I'm going to try the same on my Ti PowerBook (G4). My take a while!
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Sound Cuts out for Me Too!

Post by dizzie »

Hey, to piggyback on to this - the sound cuts out for me on several disks as well, such as Annie Hall, Zoolander, and Star Wars III. It cuts out right after the beginning where it shows what movie studio the film is from (ex. Paramount, Fox, etc.). The video looks beautiful, but there is no audio whatsoever! I can run the same file through ffmpegx and get a Divx mp4 in an .avi file that has sound and video all the way through. Thanks to all for their continued work!!!
Cavalicious
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Post by Cavalicious »

Same Folder, same software (svn Handbrake)...same issue.

G4 Powerbook (Ti)

15hours later

No Sound after 6min10secs.
cbud
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Post by cbud »

Man on Fire worked for me, no problems. I did a Full Disc Extraction.

iMac G5
MTR 14d (Full Disc Extraction)
MF 0.8b1
x264 (ipod)
1500 kbs 2-Pass
Cavalicious
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Post by Cavalicious »

Try using the same settings...
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Post by loyalty_anchored »

Cavalicious wrote:- Both cores utilization droped to ~35%. bed.
I know this is a little off topic, but how do you monitor your CPU usage... I am new to OSX and not sure what is a good tool to monitor CPU usage down to each individual cores.

thanks.
jbrjake
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Post by jbrjake »

loyalty_anchored wrote:how do you monitor your CPU usage...
Activity Monitor in your Utilities folder in your Applications folder
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Post by loyalty_anchored »

thanks jbrjake :D
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