Question on how best to use new 5.1 AC3 capability in 0.9.2

[morganew]

Just downloaded the new version, and using the AppleTV preset still shows "Track 1" as "English (AC3) (2.0 ch) and "Track 1 Mix" as "Dolby Pro Logic II + AC-3"

If I would like to use my AppleTV to put forth 5.1 to my receiver via either HDMI or Optical, should I change the "Track 1" settings to "English (AC3) (5.1 ch)?

Container would still be MP4 file with the .m4v ending, and Codecs would still be: "AVC/H.264/ACC +AC3 Audio"

The FAQ, excellent as it is, only discusses the old Dolby Pro II world and /or 6 channel discrete.

Thanks,

Morgan

[dbendixen]

I'm at a loss myself. I just did a two chapter encode in 0.9.2 using the AC3 passthru option and didn't get any sound on my Plasma (using HDMI). So I'm not sure how this works... I've been compiling the SVN for some time. Then when they started experimenting with the AC3 passthrough, I didn't get around to testing out. Now that I have, I'm lost.

[GoodOmens]

I'm at a loss myself. I just did a two chapter encode in 0.9.2 using the AC3 passthru option and didn't get any sound on my Plasma (using HDMI). So I'm not sure how this works... I've been compiling the SVN for some time. Then when they started experimenting with the AC3 passthrough, I didn't get around to testing out. Now that I have, I'm lost.

Thats because your TV can't decode the AC3 5.1 ... you need to have Doby Pro Logic + AC3 in the mix section that way your TV will try and play the mix-down instead.

[morganew]

GoodOmens,

The question may be that if we use the mix option of AC3 and DD, and our receiver can take a 5.1 signal, should we set track one to 5.1 or will the mix option convince our AppleTV to downgrade to DD?

[dbendixen]

Thats because your TV can't decode the AC3 5.1 ... you need to have Doby Pro Logic + AC3 in the mix section that way your TV will try and play the mix-down instead.

Seems obvious enough. Thanks for the response. I guess I just assumed that the ATV would mix it down to PLII or something, but obviously it doesn't care what your target device is because it just sends the signal.

So I think for me, the answer is to use the AAC + AC3 option. Has anyone tested this to see if it will play AAC on a non-DD device and play the AC3 on a DD device to see how it works? My question arises from the fact that using the dual audio encode my TV plays the audio even with the DD Output turned ON on the ATV. Does it just output both signals at once and the device chooses which to use?

[GoodOmens]

GoodOmens,

The question may be that if we use the mix option of AC3 and DD, and our receiver can take a 5.1 signal, should we set track one to 5.1 or will the mix option convince our AppleTV to downgrade to DD?

Select the AC3 + AAC option ... and leave the audio selection alone (Well make sure that the proper 5.1 AC3 track is selected if there are multiple languages present). If you want AppleTV to select the AC3 option and enable 5.1 in the ATV settings. It will detect the AC3 track and play that; with 5.1 disabled in the ATV settings the atv will play the AAC DD track instead.

[ensign22]

GoodOmens,

The question may be that if we use the mix option of AC3 and DD, and our receiver can take a 5.1 signal, should we set track one to 5.1 or will the mix option convince our AppleTV to downgrade to DD?

Select the AC3 + AAC option ... and leave the audio selection alone (Well make sure that the proper 5.1 AC3 track is selected if there are multiple languages present). If you want AppleTV to select the AC3 option and enable 5.1 in the ATV settings. It will detect the AC3 track and play that; with 5.1 disabled in the ATV settings the atv will play the AAC DD track instead.

Where is the setting on the ATV to enable/disable 5.1? The only setting I see is to turn Dolby Digital on or off but I have it on and I still get no sound when trying to play back a file that has an AC3 track (yes I have a receiver that decodes DD5.1). If I use the AC3/ACC option it will only play the ACC sound.

[saverio]

<edit> misread previous post. My answer did not apply...

[dbrajkovic]

Well, I have found out one way not to use the AC3 passthru. I have a Mac Mini hooked up to one of my HDTV with Griffin Firewave and have encoded my DVDs using the 6 discrete channel setting of 0.9.1. Of course now that AppleTVs support AC3 passthru, I wanted to re-rip my discs. What I discovered is that, the AppleTV AC3 works great, but Apple, in their infinite loop wisdom, did not give the Macs the same capability. When I play a movie in AC3 on the Mac, no sound comes out at all using the optical port. I double checked to make sure the port worked and indeed a DVD played in beautiful 5.1. I've never used Perian. Hopefully that will do the trick.

Will let you all know.

[GoodOmens]

GoodOmens,

The question may be that if we use the mix option of AC3 and DD, and our receiver can take a 5.1 signal, should we set track one to 5.1 or will the mix option convince our AppleTV to downgrade to DD?

Select the AC3 + AAC option ... and leave the audio selection alone (Well make sure that the proper 5.1 AC3 track is selected if there are multiple languages present). If you want AppleTV to select the AC3 option and enable 5.1 in the ATV settings. It will detect the AC3 track and play that; with 5.1 disabled in the ATV settings the atv will play the AAC DD track instead.

Where is the setting on the ATV to enable/disable 5.1? The only setting I see is to turn Dolby Digital on or off but I have it on and I still get no sound when trying to play back a file that has an AC3 track (yes I have a receiver that decodes DD5.1). If I use the AC3/ACC option it will only play the ACC sound.

How do you have your receiver hooked up? Does the file show two audio tracks in quicktime on your computer (using show movie properties) .. aka a stereo track and a surround?

Finally your decoding the movie's AC3 5.1 track (labeled AC3 5.1 in track 1 pull down of the audio section) and not the AC3 2.0 or a DTS audio track correct?

You do need the Dolby Digital option turned on on the ATV to select the AC3 portion of the m4v file.

[d70mac]

Well, I have found out one way not to use the AC3 passthru. I have a Mac Mini hooked up to one of my HDTV with Griffin Firewave and have encoded my DVDs using the 6 discrete channel setting of 0.9.1. Of course now that AppleTVs support AC3 passthru, I wanted to re-rip my discs. What I discovered is that, the AppleTV AC3 works great, but Apple, in their infinite loop wisdom, did not give the Macs the same capability. When I play a movie in AC3 on the Mac, no sound comes out at all using the optical port. I double checked to make sure the port worked and indeed a DVD played in beautiful 5.1. I've never used Perian. Hopefully that will do the trick.

Will let you all know.

I have no way to test this with my setup but I wonder if all you would have to do without having to use Perian is make sure your Mini is digitally connected to your receiver and then change the output from "Built-in Audio" to "Optical digital-out port" on the Output tab of the Sound System applet in OS X? I'm assuming that the Mini has an optical-digital out. The problem is that when you want to use the Mini for other things you'll probably have to switch back.

[jbrjake]

I have no way to test this with my setup but I wonder if all you would have to do without having to use Perian is make sure your Mini is digitally connected to your receiver and then change the output from "Built-in Audio" to "Optical digital-out port" on the Output tab of the Sound System applet in OS X?

Why would gbooker have gone through the trouble of developing AC3 pass-thru in Perian if it was that simple to accomplish without it?

[dbendixen]

GoodOmens,

The question may be that if we use the mix option of AC3 and DD, and our receiver can take a 5.1 signal, should we set track one to 5.1 or will the mix option convince our AppleTV to downgrade to DD?

Select the AC3 + AAC option ... and leave the audio selection alone (Well make sure that the proper 5.1 AC3 track is selected if there are multiple languages present). If you want AppleTV to select the AC3 option and enable 5.1 in the ATV settings. It will detect the AC3 track and play that; with 5.1 disabled in the ATV settings the atv will play the AAC DD track instead.

So if we have a DD capable receiver, everything's hooked up correctly, the ATV's DD out setting is ON, then we won't get any interference (if that's even the word here) from the AAC audio?

[ensign22]

GoodOmens,

The question may be that if we use the mix option of AC3 and DD, and our receiver can take a 5.1 signal, should we set track one to 5.1 or will the mix option convince our AppleTV to downgrade to DD?

Select the AC3 + AAC option ... and leave the audio selection alone (Well make sure that the proper 5.1 AC3 track is selected if there are multiple languages present). If you want AppleTV to select the AC3 option and enable 5.1 in the ATV settings. It will detect the AC3 track and play that; with 5.1 disabled in the ATV settings the atv will play the AAC DD track instead.

Where is the setting on the ATV to enable/disable 5.1? The only setting I see is to turn Dolby Digital on or off but I have it on and I still get no sound when trying to play back a file that has an AC3 track (yes I have a receiver that decodes DD5.1). If I use the AC3/ACC option it will only play the ACC sound.

How do you have your receiver hooked up? Does the file show two audio tracks in quicktime on your computer (using show movie properties) .. aka a stereo track and a surround?

Finally your decoding the movie's AC3 5.1 track (labeled AC3 5.1 in track 1 pull down of the audio section) and not the AC3 2.0 or a DTS audio track correct?

You do need the Dolby Digital option turned on on the ATV to select the AC3 portion of the m4v file.

My receiver is hooked up via HDMI. The videos are showing an AC3 surround track. I am using just the AC3 ripping not the AC3/AAC and when I play it in Quicktime with Perian the audio is there. When I play it on ATV there is no audio. I am ripping the the surround track not the AC3 2.0 track, its not that the audio is coming out in stereo its that no audio is being sent to my receiver at all.

[dbrajkovic]

I have no way to test this with my setup but I wonder if all you would have to do without having to use Perian is make sure your Mini is digitally connected to your receiver and then change the output from "Built-in Audio" to "Optical digital-out port" on the Output tab of the Sound System applet in OS X?

Why would gbooker have gone through the trouble of developing AC3 pass-thru in Perian if it was that simple to accomplish without it?

Well My mini is digitally connected to my receiver (that's why the DVD worked). But after messing around with settings for a while, nothing I did got the AC3 passing through from the Quicktime file to my stereo. I installed Perian and the AC3 codec as well. That accomplished nothing, which I expected. The AC3 codec is supposed to decode the AC3 on my mac. I don't want that. I want my receiver to do the decoding.

Any thoughts. Otherwise, I will either have to use the mini in a room without surround sound (which now exists but i was planning on putting surround in each room eventually) OR I would need to use it just as a server and get an extra Apple TV. Really don't want to spend another $230 if I don't have to. My wife would kill me.


What I would suggest that instead of PL + AC3, the option should be 6channel discrete + AC3. This way Mac's with Firewave can continue to act as the media "server." And if you don't have Firewave, QuickTime mixes it down to 2 channels anyway. Also if you convert for use with iPod/iPhone, it again mixes it down for you. So there is no reason to have a PL option in my opinion.

[dynaflash]

Just downloaded the new version, and using the AppleTV preset still shows "Track 1" as "English (AC3) (2.0 ch) and "Track 1 Mix" as "Dolby Pro Logic II + AC-3"

If I would like to use my AppleTV to put forth 5.1 to my receiver via either HDMI or Optical, should I change the "Track 1" settings to "English (AC3) (5.1 ch)?

Yes, ideally choose the "(AC3) (5.1 ch)" source track if available. Realize that the AC3 passthru part will only pass thru whatever AC3 is available on your source track. If the source is only 2.0 then thats all you will get in your resulting movie file on the AC3 track.

[jbrjake]

I installed Perian and the AC3 codec as well. That accomplished nothing, which I expected. The AC3 codec is supposed to decode the AC3 on my mac. I don't want that. I want my receiver to do the decoding.

....so turn on AC3 pass-thru in Perian...

[dbrajkovic]

I thought of that, but that wasn't an option in my Perian. I will look into that when I get home. Never used Perian before. Thanks for letting me know that the option SHOULD be there.

[caver01]

I ripped a DVD using the MP4, AAC + AC3 option and got a nice M4v as result. Playing this on a Take 2 Apple TV lights up my receiver as Dolby Digital! Yay, but now, as soon as I try to play a .AVI file (any AVI file) which will end up getting decoded with Perian, the audio on the Apple TV is totally dead. In other words, playing that M4V leaves the ATV vulnerable and the moment I play a AVI it breaks the audio and NO SOUND works until I restart that AppleTV.

Of course, ATVFiles is still in Alpha on the ATV Take 2, but somewhere in this combination things break. I can play AVIs fine, even passthrough works on the Take 2, but the moment I try my M4V, nothing else will play again. Any thoughts? Are we leaving Quicktime in some weird state when playing a file like this? Here's the resulting tracks on my M4v file if it helps:

Video Track H264
Stereo AAC
Surround AC3
Text Track Text

The test video was my The Bourne Identity DVD
<EDIT>
Thought I should provide more environment details.
Ripped the DVD with handbrake 0.9.2, MP4, H.264 AAC + AC3 at 1800 KBPS 2 pass (turbo), PAR and the rest of the Apple TV Presets.
Using a Macbook core 2 duo, running leopard, latest everything.
Playback on Apple TV factory restored to 1.0, then updated via apple to Take 2. Patched to allow SSH, installed Perian 1.1 (3 components), Sharity3 to mount SMB volume, and ATVFiles Take 2 alpha 2. Connected to Sony receiver via optical from the ATV.

[GoodOmens]

GoodOmens,

The question may be that if we use the mix option of AC3 and DD, and our receiver can take a 5.1 signal, should we set track one to 5.1 or will the mix option convince our AppleTV to downgrade to DD?

Select the AC3 + AAC option ... and leave the audio selection alone (Well make sure that the proper 5.1 AC3 track is selected if there are multiple languages present). If you want AppleTV to select the AC3 option and enable 5.1 in the ATV settings. It will detect the AC3 track and play that; with 5.1 disabled in the ATV settings the atv will play the AAC DD track instead.

So if we have a DD capable receiver, everything's hooked up correctly, the ATV's DD out setting is ON, then we won't get any interference (if that's even the word here) from the AAC audio?

Correct it is a separate track from the AAC portion and is exactly the same as it was on the DVD.

[GoodOmens]

My receiver is hooked up via HDMI. The videos are showing an AC3 surround track. I am using just the AC3 ripping not the AC3/AAC and when I play it in Quicktime with Perian the audio is there. When I play it on ATV there is no audio. I am ripping the the surround track not the AC3 2.0 track, its not that the audio is coming out in stereo its that no audio is being sent to my receiver at all.

Have you tried a different DVD? What movie is it?

Also you could try hooking up the receiver via optical.

[ensign22]

GoodOmens,

The question may be that if we use the mix option of AC3 and DD, and our receiver can take a 5.1 signal, should we set track one to 5.1 or will the mix option convince our AppleTV to downgrade to DD?

Select the AC3 + AAC option ... and leave the audio selection alone (Well make sure that the proper 5.1 AC3 track is selected if there are multiple languages present). If you want AppleTV to select the AC3 option and enable 5.1 in the ATV settings. It will detect the AC3 track and play that; with 5.1 disabled in the ATV settings the atv will play the AAC DD track instead.

Where is the setting on the ATV to enable/disable 5.1? The only setting I see is to turn Dolby Digital on or off but I have it on and I still get no sound when trying to play back a file that has an AC3 track (yes I have a receiver that decodes DD5.1). If I use the AC3/ACC option it will only play the ACC sound.

How do you have your receiver hooked up? Does the file show two audio tracks in quicktime on your computer (using show movie properties) .. aka a stereo track and a surround?

Finally your decoding the movie's AC3 5.1 track (labeled AC3 5.1 in track 1 pull down of the audio section) and not the AC3 2.0 or a DTS audio track correct?

You do need the Dolby Digital option turned on on the ATV to select the AC3 portion of the m4v file.

My receiver is hooked up via HDMI. The videos are showing an AC3 surround track. I am using just the AC3 ripping not the AC3/AAC and when I play it in Quicktime with Perian the audio is there. When I play it on ATV there is no audio. I am ripping the the surround track not the AC3 2.0 track, its not that the audio is coming out in stereo its that no audio is being sent to my receiver at all.

I dont know what I am doing wrong then. I have everything set properly and if i encode with just the AC3 I get no audio from the ATV and if I encode with the AC3/AAC it only comes out of the ATV as stereo so it is obviously pulling the ACC file.

[dynaflash]

I dont know what I am doing wrong then. I have everything set properly and if i encode with just the AC3 I get no audio from the ATV and if I encode with the AC3/AAC it only comes out of the ATV as stereo so it is obviously pulling the ACC file.

So, if your receiver is DD compatible, and you say you are hooked up via hdmi to the receiver. First make sure your receiver will take the dd via the hdmi cable. It may be that it only takes DD via an optical cable.

One other trick you can try to verify your setup is okay: With everything on , reboot your appletv. That intro movie that plays when it fires up at the beginning is exactly the same setup audio wise as the HandBrake encodes. So, it when that intro comes on you do not see your receiver indicate Dolby D. Then its not the HandBrake encode, its something else.

[dbrajkovic]

Well, I have found out one way not to use the AC3 passthru. I have a Mac Mini hooked up to one of my HDTV with Griffin Firewave and have encoded my DVDs using the 6 discrete channel setting of 0.9.1. Of course now that AppleTVs support AC3 passthru, I wanted to re-rip my discs. What I discovered is that, the AppleTV AC3 works great, but Apple, in their infinite loop wisdom, did not give the Macs the same capability. When I play a movie in AC3 on the Mac, no sound comes out at all using the optical port. I double checked to make sure the port worked and indeed a DVD played in beautiful 5.1. I've never used Perian. Hopefully that will do the trick.

Will let you all know.

OK, well after much testing, and tinkering, I just can't get it to work. AppleTV is fine. But my Mac Mini will not play the Passthru. With Perian installed, perian decodes the AC3 and puts it out on 2 channels. I download the latest perian on their website 1.1, and there is no AC3 passthru option only stereo, PL, PLII, and multi-channel output. I searched their message board, and found nothing enlightening.

Has anyone had any success sending AC3 Passthru on FrontRow with a file encoded using 0.9.2? If so, what am I doing wrong? My Mac OS X is completed updated. Also, to recap, i know my audio out works because the DVD Player on my mac does out put DD5.1 directly from DVD or from Video_TS folder.

I wouldn't mind sticking with Firewave which with Perian and AC52codec would work. But why install Perian when Handbrake could split out the channels for me. Unfortunately, as I mentioned in another post, discrete channels AND AC3 passthrough is not an option in a single file in handbrake. Is there a command line command I could use to achieve this. It would solve all my problems!

[Glassman]

I am also having problems. I have tried to encode Gone Baby Gone with the Apple TV preset in 9.2. 5.1 is selected and when the job is done, I click on get info on the file and it says that it is 2 channel. Then I import it into iTunes and click on get info and it is only stereo. How do I get 5.1? Or is it a feature that is not working in 9.2? Please help.