Which file format

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rmilchman
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:39 pm

Which file format

Post by rmilchman »

I have been using dvd decrypter on my XP workstation and ripping to ifo format. The files are approximately 7 gigs per DVD. If I use handbrake on my Mac the AVI files are half that size or less. Will I get the same video and audio quality with AVI?

Husar
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Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:50 pm

Post by Husar »

I don't think you can compare quality to file type really. With all things being equal the quality should be about the same. But some formats might give you smaller files sizes at the same quality.

But in your case you are going from what appears to be almost no compress at all to probably more for sure. You should really do a test and see what you think on the quality settings you are using with HB. In my experience I can take a uncompressed DVD down to between a third to a half file size with no noticeable difference than the original DVD.

Also, I think dvd decrypter only strips the decryption off thus no compression at all. HB does the compression for you after you have it decrypted. The equivalent of dvd decrypter on the mac would be Macktheknife if that helps at all.

I hope that helps. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.

remyhelsinki
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:35 am

Post by remyhelsinki »

Well first off you're in the wrong forum to discuss this - it would be more suitable for the General forum or the Windows forum.

Husar is right in thinking that dvd decrypter is just stripping out the decryption so you will basically get a copy of your dvd onto your hard drive which makes sense since you say the file is around 7 GBs. Technically speaking you will not get the same quality as the original dvd with any transcoding method as you will always lose "some" amount of quality when changing formats. Of course you might not be able to perceptually tell a difference between the video files depending on your settings, so that lost quality may not matter for "you."

However to answer what I think you are looking for, yes you can create an avi file that will look very close to what your dvd may provide and it will most likely be a smaller size than the original dvd. However it all depends on your settings. You might as well use a preset unless you know what you're doing. Also consider what you need the files for whether it be for a iPod, media center, or whatever as that will affect what you should have your settings as.

You'll have to do some trial and error before you find what works best for you.

rmilchman
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:39 pm

Post by rmilchman »

Wasn't sure which forum to post to. What I forgot in my original post is that I'm in the process of moving from XP to a Leopard based MacPro and first learning what software to use.

I'm afraid ripping to AVI and playing on 57" TV will have a big loss, but was wondering what others were experiencing. The destination is a d-kink dsm-520.

I couldn't find "macktheknife", any idea where to look?

cacepi
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:23 pm

Post by cacepi »

rmilchman wrote:I couldn't find "macktheknife", any idea where to look?
Little mistake with the name. It's actually called Mac the Ripper, and it can be found here:

http://www.mactheripper.org/

Note: you should probably read what's happening with recent versions of MTR before marrying to it.

rmilchman
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:39 pm

Post by rmilchman »

If I read the link correctly, the issue has been resolved / removed. Do you agree?

cacepi
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:23 pm

Post by cacepi »

rmilchman wrote:If I read the link correctly, the issue has been resolved / removed. Do you agree?
Nope, not at all.

But this is not the correct forum for the issue. We can talk about it more in the MTR thread or through private e-mail.

meldavid
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:40 pm

Post by meldavid »

rmilchman wrote:I'm afraid ripping to AVI and playing on 57" TV will have a big loss, but was wondering what others were experiencing. The destination is a d-kink dsm-520.
Why not just go ahead and use the Windows version of Handbrake to create an AVI to see the quality for yourself?

Use the "Mpeg 4" encoder with "AC3" (I have not been satisfied with the Xvid codec in Handbrake) as I don't think your stand-alone supports the more advanced H264 codecs.
You'll be surprised how good the quality is, especially if you use really high bitrates like 2800 kbps for the video for a frame size of 640 x 272. You won't lose any audio quality with a straight ac3 rip.
That's the settings I used for LOTR. Other lesser movies, I just use 1300 kbps and a pixel width of 608.

While the temptation is there to use bigger frame sizes like 720 pixels for width and anamorphic height, to keep DVD quality you have to use even much higher bitrates, resulting in huge files.

Mpeg-4 is more advanced than the Mpeg-2 compression DVDs use. If you were to make a 4 GB Mpeg-4 AVI and compared it to a 4 GB DVDShrink movie, the AVI wins for sure as the DVD has wasted bits on encoding black bars for the top and bottom of the frame.

I don't now if it is the same for your media player, but my Noontec GigaView only supports AVIs up to 2 GB file size. So if it's a long movie and I have encoded a really large AVI, I will split it up into 2 or more AVIs. I think that is just a limitation of the AVI container format.

H264 can support larger file sizes than AVI, but you won't find a stand-alone player that can decode them yet. The Xbox 360 can decode H264 but it only supports stereo AAC audio. I didn't buy a 5.1 system to listen to stereo audio, lol.
So yeah, I'm sticking with good old AVIs for now. I'll start using H264 once I have a library of HD-DVD or Blu-Ray discs.

[Edit: I noticed that ac3 audio format is not supported by the D-Link DSM-520 so you may have to transcode the audio to MP3 in Handbrake. You won't really notice the loss in quality but you may miss the discrete surround sound]

rmilchman
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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:39 pm

Post by rmilchman »

I've been testing with a different formats. The mistake I mad is that I didn't keep track of what was what. I need to re-test, but I think i saved a movie as avi with ac3 and the 520 is playing it. It even says Dolby digital on my av receive,er

rmilchman
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:39 pm

Post by rmilchman »

I was able to use ac3 and pass it through to my receiver. AVI video quality looked good, 5.1 digital dolby sounded good and worked properly. The problem was the sound was off by about 10 seconds. Lips moved, then the sound.

If I play the same AVI from my PC (across the network) it works fine. Any suggestions?

Maury Markowitz
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:24 pm

Post by Maury Markowitz »

rmilchman wrote:I'm afraid ripping to AVI and playing on 57" TV will have a big loss
DVDs are all going to look pretty crappy blown up this large on a good TV. They look great on an analog 32", because the people making the DVD standard selected a resolution and compression scheme that was overkill for traditional low-def TV's. But when you start blowing them up really big, especially on a HD digital screen, they just can't hack it, you WILL see the effects of the compression on the disk.

Now this is actually a _good_ thing. It's good because you can re-code the DVD from the original MPEG2 format into something modern like H.264 and get pretty much identical picture quality in a file around 2 gig in size. Sure, it might look blocky when you play it back, but so would your DVD.

The same is not true for HD formats like HD DVD or BluRay. These formats are designed in a similar fashion as the original DVD, but this time they targeted HD screens, not low-def ones. There's a LOT more detail packed onto these disks, and in addition they generally use newer compression schemes so re-coding won't save you much space (if anything at all) while retaining the quality.

Maury

Cavalicious
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Post by Cavalicious »

Maury Markowitz wrote:DVDs are all going to look pretty crappy blown up this large on a good TV. They look great on an analog 32", because the people making the DVD standard selected a resolution and compression scheme that was overkill for traditional low-def TV's. But when you start blowing them up really big, especially on a HD digital screen, they just can't hack it, you WILL see the effects of the compression on the disk.

Now this is actually a _good_ thing. It's good because you can re-code the DVD from the original MPEG2 format into something modern like H.264 and get pretty much identical picture quality in a file around 2 gig in size. Sure, it might look blocky when you play it back, but so would your DVD.
Not True. Most DVD players of 4-5 years ago can up convert to at least 720p. Outside of bargain-bin players, of course. Along with the AppleTV and XBox360 among other devices.

As long as the up converting chipset (Fujitsu most likely) is decent, picture quality is fine. I take my encodes and display them on a 42" TV and a 110" Projected Screen via my AppleTV and all is fine (all at 720p). For DVDs, I use my Samsung 820 (I think thats the model number), it up converts to 1080i. That said, you can't tell the difference between the 110" and the 42" displays.

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