Motion judder on "Get Smart" PAL

[Ripping Jack]

I've been ripping DVD movies and TV shows, both PAL and NTSC, Regions 1 and 4, for several years and this is the first time I've encountered this problem.

All five seasons of Get Smart on PAL DVD exhibit motion judder when ripped using HandBrake's Universal and Apple TV 2 presets. The problem is mainly noticeable when the picture is panning, but also occurs when there is fast motion in a scene.

This is one of the oldest shows I've ripped, and I'm wondering if it has something to do with the way the show was shot or transferred? The fact it's 24fps shouldn't matter, as most of my movies are the same.

I tried both those presets in case it was the frame rate, but same problem on both.

Thoughts?

[TedJ]

Activity log, please.

[Ripping Jack]

Here's the log from the most recently encoded episode:

Code: Select all

[14:31:51] starting job
[14:31:51] sync: expecting 37800 video frames
[ac3 @ 0x117946600] No channel layout specified. The encoder will guess the layout, but it might be incorrect.
[14:31:51] job configuration:
[14:31:51]  * source
[14:31:51]    + /dev/disk7
[14:31:51]    + title 8, chapter(s) 1 to 6
[14:31:51]  * destination
[14:31:51]    + /Volumes/BD & DVD rips/1.08 The Day Smart Turned Chicken.m4v
[14:31:51]    + container: MPEG-4 (.mp4 and .m4v)
[14:31:51]      + 64-bit formatting
[14:31:51]      + chapter markers
[14:31:51]  * video track
[14:31:51]    + decoder: mpeg2
[14:31:51]      + bitrate 8260 kbps
[14:31:51]    + frame rate: 25.000 fps -> peak rate limited to 29.970 fps
[14:31:51]    + loose anamorphic
[14:31:51]      + storage dimensions: 720 * 576 -> 704 * 576, crop 2/0/4/10, mod 16
[14:31:51]      + pixel aspect ratio: 16944 / 15785
[14:31:51]      + display dimensions: 755 * 576
[14:31:51]    + filter
[14:31:51]      + Decomb (default settings)
[14:31:51]    + encoder: x264
[14:31:51]      + quality: 20.00 (RF)
[14:31:51]  * audio track 0
[14:31:51]    + decoder: English (AC3) (2.0 ch) (track 1, id 80bd)
[14:31:51]      + bitrate: 192 kbps, samplerate: 48000 Hz
[14:31:51]    + mixdown: Stereo
[14:31:51]    + encoder: ca_aac
[14:31:51]      + bitrate: 160 kbps, samplerate: 48000 Hz
[14:31:51]  * audio track 1
[14:31:51]    + decoder: English (AC3) (2.0 ch) (track 1, id 80bd)
[14:31:51]      + bitrate: 192 kbps, samplerate: 48000 Hz
[14:31:51]    + AC3 passthrough
libdvdnav: Using dvdnav version 4.1.3
libdvdread: Using libdvdcss version 1.2.10 for DVD access
[14:31:51] yadif thread started for segment 1
[14:31:51] yadif thread started for segment 0
[14:31:51] yadif thread started for segment 2
[14:31:51] yadif thread started for segment 3
[14:31:51] yadif thread started for segment 4
[14:31:51] yadif thread started for segment 5
[14:31:51] yadif thread started for segment 6
[14:31:51] yadif thread started for segment 7
[14:31:51] decomb thread started for segment 0
[14:31:51] decomb thread started for segment 1
[14:31:51] decomb thread started for segment 2
[14:31:51] decomb thread started for segment 3
[14:31:51] decomb thread started for segment 4
[14:31:51] decomb thread started for segment 5
[14:31:51] decomb thread started for segment 6
[14:31:51] decomb thread started for segment 7
[14:31:51] encx264: min-keyint: auto (29), keyint: 300
[14:31:51] encx264: encoding with stored aspect 16944/15785
[14:31:51] encx264: Encoding at constant RF 20.000000
x264 [info]: using SAR=16944/15785
x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX2 SSE2Fast SSSE3 FastShuffle SSE4.2
x264 [info]: profile High, level 3.1
No accelerated IMDCT transform found
No accelerated IMDCT transform found
NAME OPEN FAILED
libdvdnav: Unable to find map file '/Users/John/.dvdnav/.map'
libdvdnav: DVD disk reports itself with Region mask 0x00f50000. Regions: 2 4

libdvdread: Attempting to retrieve all CSS keys
libdvdread: This can take a _long_ time, please be patient

libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VIDEO_TS.VOB at 0x00000149
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VTS_01_0.VOB at 0x0001ab6e
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VTS_01_1.VOB at 0x0001ab9e
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VTS_02_0.VOB at 0x00098180
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VTS_02_1.VOB at 0x000981ad
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VTS_03_0.VOB at 0x0010b797
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VTS_03_1.VOB at 0x0010b7c4
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VTS_04_0.VOB at 0x0017f171
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VTS_04_1.VOB at 0x0017f19c
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VTS_05_0.VOB at 0x001f2aaa
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VTS_05_1.VOB at 0x001f2adc
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VTS_06_0.VOB at 0x00265b19
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VTS_06_1.VOB at 0x00265b46
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VTS_07_0.VOB at 0x002d93db
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VTS_07_1.VOB at 0x002d9408
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VTS_08_0.VOB at 0x0034c271
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VTS_08_1.VOB at 0x0034c2a1
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VTS_09_1.VOB at 0x003bf284
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
libdvdread: Found 9 VTS's
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
libdvdread: Using libdvdcss version 1.2.10 for DVD access
libdvdnav: DVD disk reports itself with Region mask 0x00f50000. Regions: 2 4
[14:31:53] reader: first SCR 146 id 224 DTS 22254
[14:31:53] mpeg2: "Chapter  1" (1) at frame 0 time 3600
[14:33:16] mpeg2: "Chapter  2" (2) at frame 5726 time 20617200
[14:33:33] mpeg2: "Chapter  3" (3) at frame 7082 time 25498800
[14:36:42] mpeg2: "Chapter  4" (4) at frame 21842 time 78634800
[14:39:21] mpeg2: "Chapter  5" (5) at frame 34862 time 125506800
[14:39:42] mpeg2: "Chapter  6" (6) at frame 36386 time 130993200
[14:39:56] reader: end of chapter 6 (media 6) reached at media chapter 7
[14:39:56] reader: done. 0 scr changes
[14:39:57] work: average encoding speed for job is 78.231010 fps
[14:39:57] sync: got 37774 frames, 37800 expected
[14:39:57] mpeg2 done: 37774 frames
[14:39:57] render: 37773 frames output, 0 dropped and 0 duped for CFR/PFR
[14:39:57] render: lost time: 0 (0 frames)
[14:39:57] render: gained time: 0 (0 frames) (0 not accounted for)
x264 [info]: frame I:255   Avg QP:17.56  size: 44830  PSNR Mean Y:46.75 U:49.93 V:50.13 Avg:47.56 Global:46.61
x264 [info]: frame P:14353 Avg QP:21.18  size: 15533  PSNR Mean Y:42.88 U:46.74 V:46.78 Avg:43.81 Global:43.57
x264 [info]: frame B:23165 Avg QP:24.18  size:  3083  PSNR Mean Y:41.96 U:46.65 V:46.65 Avg:43.02 Global:42.75
x264 [info]: consecutive B-frames:  4.0% 32.5% 25.8% 37.7%
x264 [info]: mb I  I16..4:  8.9% 72.0% 19.2%
x264 [info]: mb P  I16..4:  0.7%  5.1%  1.3%  P16..4: 44.1% 24.7% 13.7%  0.0%  0.0%    skip:10.3%
x264 [info]: mb B  I16..4:  0.1%  0.3%  0.1%  B16..8: 39.4%  4.6%  1.1%  direct: 3.1%  skip:51.4%  L0:38.6% L1:52.3% BI: 9.1%
x264 [info]: 8x8 transform intra:71.6% inter:68.3%
x264 [info]: coded y,uvDC,uvAC intra: 87.3% 85.6% 55.5% inter: 27.0% 29.1% 2.7%
x264 [info]: i16 v,h,dc,p: 65% 20%  3% 12%
x264 [info]: i8 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 28% 12% 14%  5%  7% 10%  7% 10%  7%
x264 [info]: i4 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 34% 12% 11%  5%  8% 10%  6%  8%  5%
x264 [info]: i8c dc,h,v,p: 46% 17% 28%  9%
x264 [info]: Weighted P-Frames: Y:4.7% UV:2.6%
x264 [info]: ref P L0: 58.4% 17.5% 18.4%  5.6%  0.2%
x264 [info]: ref B L0: 83.5% 14.9%  1.6%
x264 [info]: ref B L1: 94.7%  5.3%
x264 [info]: SSIM Mean Y:0.9768758 (16.359db)
x264 [info]: PSNR Mean Y:42.342 U:46.706 V:46.726 Avg:43.355 Global:43.060 kb/s:1619.09
[14:39:57] mux: track 0, 37773 frames, 305779891 bytes, 1619.02 kbps, fifo 8
[14:39:57] mux: track 1, 70822 frames, 24924260 bytes, 131.97 kbps, fifo 256
[14:39:57] mux: track 2, 47214 frames, 36260352 bytes, 191.99 kbps, fifo 256
[14:39:57] decomb: deinterlaced 12790 | blended 3731 | unfiltered 21252 | total 37773
[14:39:57] libhb: work result = 0
[14:39:57] macgui: incrementQueueItemDone there are no more pending encodes

[tlindgren]

All five seasons of Get Smart on PAL DVD exhibit motion judder when ripped using HandBrake's Universal and Apple TV 2 presets. The problem is mainly noticeable when the picture is panning, but also occurs when there is fast motion in a scene.

This is one of the oldest shows I've ripped, and I'm wondering if it has something to do with the way the show was shot or transferred? The fact it's 24fps shouldn't matter, as most of my movies are the same.

"Get Smart" appears to be a older US TV show, which suggests it was likely done in NTSC (60i), not 24 fps.

There's no real god way to transfer 60i to 50i (nor to 25p), so you likely have a bad source to start from, there's likely already quite a bit of judder in the original DVD.

Running decomb on that source effectively attempts to convert it to 25p, going to 25p without "blending frames" would have caused significant judder even directly from the 60i source, going via a 50i intermediate makes it much worse.

It might to get a semi-reasonable result from that source, but it needs something a lot more powerful (and harder to use) than HandBrake.

Short of a major effort, the obvious thing would be to encode it interlaced (50i) without decomb, but HandBrake doesn't do interlaced encoding... 50p via "bobbing/decomb" might give slightly quality than interlaced encoding, though it will also create a large file and not all players will handle it, there are patches for this for HandBrake but it's not integrated yet.

Basic rule for good conversions: Always get a source with the original frame-rate and interlace settings, or you will likely regret it.

[Ripping Jack]

Thank you for that, will experiment with a few non-decomb settings.

[TedJ]

I would skip decomb and try straight deinterlace slow instead.

[Ripping Jack]

Thanks Ted, I've tried fast deinterlace and it's still a problem so I'll give slow a go.

Oh, and sorry for not mentioning first up that I was decombing - obviously a critical detail!

[TedJ]

Oh, and sorry for not mentioning first up that I was decombing - obviously a critical detail!

We knew this, as it was stated in your log.

[Ripping Jack]

For the record, deinterlace slow didn't work but deinterlace bob did.

Incidentally, can anyone comment on the quality of deinterlace bob vs decomb default (my usual filter of choice)?

[Lostless]

Decomb "Bob" takes into account every possible frame up to 60FPS. Interlaced video contains 2 separate frames (called fields) in 1 video frame. So in PAL, it runs at 25 FPS but could contain 50FPS of information. Its possible just deinterlacing or decombing is throwing out half the motion information to make a 25FPS. This can lead to judder.

[Ripping Jack]

Aha, right, thanks for that!

[Ripping Jack]

I noticed decomb bob is now an option. Does that give a smoother picture than deinterlace bob? Wondering whether to go back and re-rip ...

[Deleted User 11865]

I noticed decomb bob is now an option. Does that give a smoother picture than deinterlace bob?

No.

[Ripping Jack]

Thanks Rodeo!