DTS source audio support

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maurj
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DTS source audio support

Post by maurj »

Hi all,

Good news - I've got DTS source audio support working (for 5.1 and lower DTS), using libdca. I'm hoping to be able to check something in for this soon.

- maurj.
cvk_b
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Re: DTS source audio support

Post by cvk_b »

maurj wrote:Hi all,

Good news - I've got DTS source audio support working (for 5.1 and lower DTS), using libdca. I'm hoping to be able to check something in for this soon.

- maurj.
:shock: :D
loyalty_anchored
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Re: DTS source audio support

Post by loyalty_anchored »

maurj wrote:Hi all,

Good news - I've got DTS source audio support working (for 5.1 and lower DTS), using libdca. I'm hoping to be able to check something in for this soon.

- maurj.
Excellent new Maurj! will be testing when available :-) Thanks for the hard work!
maurj
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Post by maurj »

DTS source audio track conversion (for Mac GUI and Mac CLI) is now checked in, as rev565 in the SVN - please give it a try and test it with as many DTS DVDs as you can!

- maurj
brianlees
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Post by brianlees »

I have chills going up my spine! (I don't get out much...I'm married!)
maurj
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Post by maurj »

Just discovered a problem with the DTS implementation in the latest svn revisions (rev 569). Unfortunately, the channels are wrongly mapped when mixing down to Dolby Pro Logic II, and also when mixing to 6-channel discrete. I'll hopefully be able to fix this over the weekend. Apologies - I thought that libdca used the same channel order as liba52, but apparently not.

- maurj.
cvk_b
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Post by cvk_b »

maurj wrote:Just discovered a problem with the DTS implementation in the latest svn revisions (rev 569). Unfortunately, the channels are wrongly mapped when mixing down to Dolby Pro Logic II, and also when mixing to 6-channel discrete. I'll hopefully be able to fix this over the weekend. Apologies - I thought that libdca used the same channel order as liba52, but apparently not.

- maurj.
Okay to test? I just updated libtool but I see if I had waited I might not have needed to.
maurj
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Post by maurj »

You don't need to update if you're just using the pre-built contrib libraries. But at the moment, the DTS channel mappings are wrong. I'll probably get them fixed tomorrow night (Sunday).

if you are building the latest svn revisions via jam (rather than make) on OS X, you will need to update libtool, automake and autoconf because of the DTS library, libdca. I've updated the BUILD file in the svn with instructions on what versions you'll need on OS X.
cvk_b
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Post by cvk_b »

maurj wrote:
if you are building the latest svn revisions via jam (rather than make) on OS X, you will need to update libtool, automake and autoconf because of the DTS library, libdca.
I pretty much figured that out eventually. Good that you added it the build file.

One thing that I have noticed so far is that the DTS-to-Stereo (a few builds ago) was coming out louder than AC3-to-Stereo. It was not over-saturated, though, which is good. I think DTS is just louder in general, even on original discs, so this seems consistent.

Jam is building fine so drop a note when you want me to test further.

Great work, btw.
Kurtz
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Cool

Post by Kurtz »

Wow this is cool
loads of my Asian movies are DTS

With this added feature, does this mean we could have two audio tracks?
maurj
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Post by maurj »

Hi Kurtz,

You can already choose two audio tracks in the CLI and the Mac GUI (in fact, you can choose up to 8 in the CLI).

The new DTS code means that on a DVD with both AC3 and DTS, you could convert the AC3 5.1 track to DPL II, and convert the DTS 5.1 track to 6-channel discrete (or vice versa). Since HandBrake can't convert the same source track twice at the same time, this is the next best thing.
maurj
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Post by maurj »

I've just done a whole bunch of testing, and as far as I can tell, the channel mappings are working correctly now for DTS in SVN rev 570. If anyone would like to give it a try, I'd be very grateful!

- maurj.
cvk_b
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Post by cvk_b »

Got some DTS-ES, too. Should I test those? What is the expected behaviour for that situation?
maurj
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Post by maurj »

Please do test them! I've tried extracting the DTS-ES track on my copy of The Two Towers - Extended Edition, and it seems to work fine, although HandBrake is getting a 5.1 rather than 6.1 mix from libdca.

My hope is that the DTS-ES will always be extracted by libdca as 5.1. Just to complicate things, there are two variants of DTS-ES. One is 5.1 discrete with a matrix-encoded 7th channel (this should work fine, though don't expect the 7th channel to survive HandBrake's DPLII encoding). The other type of DTS-ES is 6.1 discrete. I think this is the type my Two Towers DVD has, and it seems to be working. Maybe libdca is just discarding the 7th channel?

Either way, please do give it a try, and see if it works / fails gracefully / falls over horribly :)

- maurj.
cvk_b
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Post by cvk_b »

maurj wrote:Please do test them! I've tried extracting the DTS-ES track on my copy of The Two Towers - Extended Edition, and it seems to work fine, although HandBrake is getting a 5.1 rather than 6.1 mix from libdca.

My hope is that the DTS-ES will always be extracted by libdca as 5.1. Just to complicate things, there are two variants of DTS-ES. One is 5.1 discrete with a matrix-encoded 7th channel (this should work fine, though don't expect the 7th channel to survive HandBrake's DPLII encoding). The other type of DTS-ES is 6.1 discrete. I think this is the type my Two Towers DVD has, and it seems to be working. Maybe libdca is just discarding the 7th channel?

Either way, please do give it a try, and see if it works / fails gracefully / falls over horribly :)

- maurj.
Using CLI, DTS-ES => DPL2 "Fellowship of the Ring Part 1" = LFE ? True Analog 5.1?

Rear center matrixed should just work. And discrete is dropped rear center?

Tried 5th Element yet? What about DTS-NEO? Test those?

*runs off to grab DVD cases.

UPDATE: center voice coming from left channel...

Code: Select all

Revision: 570
Node Kind: directory
Schedule: normal
Last Changed Author: maurj
Last Changed Rev: 570
Last Changed Date: 2007-05-06 14:32:01 -0700 (Sun, 06 May 2007)
Properties Last Updated: 2007-03-26 22:45:17 -0700 (Mon, 26 Mar 2007)
realityking
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Post by realityking »

cvk_b wrote:Using CLI, DTS-ES => DPL2 "Fellowship of the Ring Part 1" = LFE ? True Analog 5.1?
Depends on what you consider "true 5.1", if you do this you wont have discrete channels anymore.
cvk_b
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Post by cvk_b »

realityking wrote:
cvk_b wrote:Using CLI, DTS-ES => DPL2 "Fellowship of the Ring Part 1" = LFE ? True Analog 5.1?
Depends on what you consider "true 5.1", if you do this you wont have discrete channels anymore.
Yes, I understand.

LFE is not currently officially implemented via downmixing to DPL2. I was inquiring about the inclusion.
maurj
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Post by maurj »

Hi all,

First up, I'm not especially planning to add in LFE for DPL2, for the reasons mentioned elsewhere before - it's inadvisable for a number of reasons. Sorry :(

cvk_b, thanks for the tests. I'd like to check a few things if that's okay. You mentioned that you had the center voice coming from the left channel. Some questions:

* Which SVN revision is this with?
* Which DVD, and is it a DTS 5.1 track, or a DTS-ES 6.1 matrix track, or a DTS-ES 6.1 discrete track?
* Does it happen with every DVD you try, or just with DTS 5.1 / DTS-ES 6.1 matrix / DTS-ES 6.1 discrete?

BTW, if you really do want that LFE, then you can use HandBrake's 6-channel discrete extraction with DTS, just like AC3.

- maurj.
cvk_b
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Post by cvk_b »

maurj wrote:I'm not especially planning to add in LFE for DPL2, for the reasons mentioned elsewhere before - it's inadvisable for a number of reasons.
I was holding out for a boolean yes/no for LFE. Rats. :) I completely understand your design decision. I think it was wise. I thought that maybe DTS sub material was guaranteed not mixed with Left/Center/Right. Wishful thinking, perhaps.
maurj wrote:* Which SVN revision is this with?
* Which DVD, and is it a DTS 5.1 track, or a DTS-ES 6.1 matrix track, or a DTS-ES 6.1 discrete track?
* Does it happen with every DVD you try, or just with DTS 5.1 / DTS-ES 6.1 matrix / DTS-ES 6.1 discrete?
Vanilla 570 via jam. Fellowship of the Ring Extended (both parts, DTS-ES). Not sure if its matrix or discrete rear center. All LotR Extended should be the same though. I tried to find the info in the packaging but it's too damn long :)

I am going to try some other material. I need to do some drive sweeping first.
rhester
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Post by rhester »

maurj wrote:First up, I'm not especially planning to add in LFE for DPL2, for the reasons mentioned elsewhere before - it's inadvisable for a number of reasons. Sorry :(
maurj, I'd ask that you reconsider, only because Dolby's recommendation is to drop LFE on DPL2 encodes only if there is no unique data in the LFE channel. I have a good number of DVDs I've analyzed where the LFE data is unique (and utterly lost because it's thrown away by current builds).

I agree that for safety's sake LFE encoding should not be the default, but I feel pretty strongly that it should be an available option, because otherwise we really are throwing away actual, non-repeated data.

Rodney
maurj
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Post by maurj »

rhester,

A good argument, and well made :) When time permits, I'll try it again, then. It turned out being harder than anticipated, as liba52 isn't set up to make the LFE available to a dolby downmix, but I'm sure there'll be some way of doing it!

cvk_b,

I'll double-check the channel mappings. I don't have FotR Extended, but I've got Two Towers and Return Of The King. These seemed to be working okay, but I'll check.

One of the problems with DTS is that I don't have a way to create test DTS audio tracks in the way that I did for AC3. If anyone has access to one of the commercial DTS encoders - Nuendo DTS, or SurCode DTS DVS - and could make a DVD Studio Pro compatible DTS audio file one from my source files - I'd be very grateful...

- maurj
cvk_b
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Post by cvk_b »

UPDATE:

Sorry it took so long. Turns out my subsequent builds have the channel mapping correct. I "touched" everything in the contrib directory to be sure everything in libhb was building fresh. Seems it was my issue. Weird since I am DTS testing on a clean trunk. I am sticking with 588 for awhile, fyi. Now, onto the discs:

encoding to h264

Source: Discrete 6.1 / Downmix: DPL2
LotR - Fellowship: Seemingly loud, mapping correctly

Source: Discrete 6.1 / Downmix: Stereo
LotR - Fellowship: ok
Pan's Labyrinth Chapter 2: ok

Source: Discrete 6.1 / Downmix: Dolby Surround
LotR - Fellowship Chapter 3: ok
Pan's Labyrinth Chapter 2: ok


Source: DTS 5.1 / Downmix: DPL2
The Crow: ok
Toy Story: ok

Source: Matrix 6.1 / Downmix: DPL2
Still trying to come up with some... List anywhere? I might have castaway, pitch black or unbreakable... I have to check to see if they are not stored away...

I am getting no sound when using avi container dts->dpl2. Normal?

Hope this helps.
golias
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Post by golias »

I've been really hoping, especially with the arrival of AppleTV, that Apple would find a way to carry discrete channels on their optical output, but that appears to not be the case at all.

The DVD Player and EyeTV both seem to be able to output Dolby Digital fine by somehow bypassing QuickTime entirely.

No decent, affordable amps I've seen support AAC 5.1 at all, and it looks like QuickTime always mixes it down to DPL anyway... so at the moment, (as far as I can tell) the only way to get discrete audio out of my HB files is to either extract to AC-3 pass-through and playback with VLC, or extract to 5.1 AAC and go buy a USB or FireWire multi-channel break-out box.

Am I badly misguided, or is that the state of things?

It sounds like I may have shopping ahead of me. I'm told the HarmonyAudio works well with all formats. :/ Once I have that, I'm finally moving my entire movie library to h.264/AAC, not just my stereo TV shows.
maurj
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Post by maurj »

Cvk_b:

Thanks for the tests - much appreciated! Sounds like the DTS -> DPLII (in AAC) is mapping correctly all round.

I'm not sure about the "DTS -> DPLII in AVI" lack of sound - that should be working, really. I'll take a look.

Golias:

You're absolutely spot on in all of your assumptions and comments. That's just how it is right now :(

- maurj.
golias
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Post by golias »

golias wrote:I've been really hoping, especially with the arrival of AppleTV, that Apple would find a way to carry discrete channels on their optical output, but that appears to not be the case at all.

The DVD Player and EyeTV both seem to be able to output Dolby Digital fine by somehow bypassing QuickTime entirely.

No decent, affordable amps I've seen support AAC 5.1 at all, and it looks like QuickTime always mixes it down to DPL anyway... so at the moment, (as far as I can tell) the only way to get discrete audio out of my HB files is to either extract to AC-3 pass-through and playback with VLC, or extract to 5.1 AAC and go buy a USB or FireWire multi-channel break-out box.

Am I badly misguided, or is that the state of things?

It sounds like I may have shopping ahead of me. I'm told the HarmonyAudio works well with all formats. :/ Once I have that, I'm finally moving my entire movie library to h.264/AAC, not just my stereo TV shows.
After playing around with various options, I've come to the conclusion that the best of all possible options is to just use AC-3 with everything. 6-channel break-out boxes will not allow me to play DTS sources anymore, and I have no desire to go back and forth between solutions depending on my media source.

So from now on, all my 5.1 rips will be h.264/AC3 passthrough.

However, until HB can detect and preserve (not transcode) DTS signals, there will still be a few disks that I can't convert.

Looking forward to the next rev. Between DTS support and improved subtitles, the next version will solve pretty much ALL of my DVD-ripping problems! 8)
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