Remove Theora, add NVenc...

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K@mpfH@mster
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Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:42 am

Remove Theora, add NVenc...

Post by K@mpfH@mster » Thu Jun 16, 2016 6:23 pm

Hey guys,

now that VP9 is available in nightly builds, I would like to suggest again to remove Theora from the list, it is an outdated Encoder. Also I would like to see GPU encoding from AMD and NVIDIA. I have read, that speed and quality (NVenc h265 is at same quality like x264 medium, but with 200 fps) improved much. Also, not everyone has a QuickSync compatible card. AMDs Zen will be released soon and the Intel E processors doesnt have a GPU.

It would be a good alternative for fast encoding with acceptable quality.

Could you please sort the video codec list and put MPEG2 and Mpeg 4 at the end, x265 and x265 at the beginnin and VP codecs in the middle.

THX
Last edited by K@mpfH@mster on Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Woodstock
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Re: Remove Theora, add NVenc...

Post by Woodstock » Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:12 pm

A search for "NVENC" comes up with several recent topics on this, with "GPL-compatible patches welcome" mentioned. There was also a recent one (April) comparing the NVENC developer kit code to software encoding.

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Rodeo
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Re: Remove Theora, add NVenc...

Post by Rodeo » Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:14 pm

Not sure what's the licensing status of NVENC right now; with NVIDIA's header updates it became LGPL-compatible, but I'm not sure about the GPL.

K@mpfH@mster
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Re: Remove Theora, add NVenc...

Post by K@mpfH@mster » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:23 pm

Hi, it would be very nice if you could check and integrate it, also AMD encoding.

K@mpfH@mster
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Re: Remove Theora, add NVenc...

Post by K@mpfH@mster » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:57 pm

Hi, sorry for the double post, but I found out that the software Xmedia Recode has support for NVenc and I made my own test. I encoded the trailer from "How to train a dragon" video only with 2pass 800kbit to 1600x900. I have an Nvidia 750ti + i3-4150 + 8GB ram

n264 hq: 115 sek (11,7mb)
Image

x264 slow: 248 sek (12,2mb)
Image

Like you se NVenc is much faster, looks better (in most scenes) and also creates a smaller size.

mduell
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Re: Remove Theora, add NVenc...

Post by mduell » Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:48 pm

I don't watch movies as still images.

Djfe
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Re: Remove Theora, add NVenc...

Post by Djfe » Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:27 am

yeah but the likeliness that just one decoded image out of the movie looks this bad...
but as churchill said: I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself

@Kampfhamster
If you have an intel e processor, then you usually don't need the hardware encoding, because the CPU ist faster and has higher quality, atleast that's the last state I heard around here
not sure how good Intel QSV is right now on the newer CPUs (6700k)

generally I would like to see nvenc support as well
but there are license problems as the others said already
and the devs see other features as more important/useful and don't want to work on stuff that they don't use themselves, which is legitimate

about theora: as long as it doesn't force the devs to do much more work, my opinion is: why not leave it in?
it's still an open source codec and much more so than VP8 and VP9
I personally would bring this up, once daala/netvc is out ^^

in the end the decision should be up to the devs when to remove theora support

K@mpfH@mster
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Re: Remove Theora, add NVenc...

Post by K@mpfH@mster » Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:48 pm

Hi, I found this posting here: http://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-deve ... 84730.html
Nvidia finaly decided to put a propper MIT license on their nvenc header, so it can be included, removing any external dependencies for nvenc and making it no longer require the non-free flag.

Don't know if this licence is enough to be free for handbrake, but perhaps you can check it. THX

Salem874
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Re: Remove Theora, add NVenc...

Post by Salem874 » Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:19 pm

Would love to see this added also..

bucaneiro
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Re: Remove Theora, add NVenc...

Post by bucaneiro » Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:28 pm

it's not that good for x265. And if you gonna compare still images from movies don't use CG, ANIME... use movement scenes. It's when a codec must interpret a lot of information.

Djfe
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Re: Remove Theora, add NVenc...

Post by Djfe » Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:49 pm

http://slhck.info/articles/crf
CRF in a nutshell

The way constant quality encoding is usually done, it keeps up a constant quality by compressing every frame of the same type the same amount. In tech speak, that’s maintaining a constant QP (quantization parameter). The quantization parameter defines how much information to “throw away” from a given block of pixels.

Constant Rate Factor, on the other hand, will compress different frames by different amounts. It does this by taking motion into account.

The eye perceives more detail in still objects than when they’re in motion. Because of this, a video compressor can apply more compression (drop more detail) when things are moving, and apply less compression (retain more detail) when things are still. Subjectively, the video will seem to have higher quality.
And now I'm curious what you mean by "it" ^^ (what's not good for x265?)

K@mpfH@mster
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Re: Remove Theora, add NVenc...

Post by K@mpfH@mster » Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:45 pm

Hi, here I have found an articel for amd alternative for hardware encoding, it is open source too now
http://www.golem.de/news/adavanced-medi ... 22781.html

Djfe
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Re: Remove Theora, add NVenc...

Post by Djfe » Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:27 pm

The code is (sadly) completely new, does only support windows/isn't Plattform independent and it's in such an early stage that you cannot encode in HEVC, yet.
So maybe at a later stage, when the project has matured enough and if a developer takes interest in it.
Right now it's not usable.

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Rodeo
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Re: Remove Theora, add NVenc...

Post by Rodeo » Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:57 pm

Anything is "usable" unless proven otherwise; the more important question is developer interest and *time* :)

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s55
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Re: Remove Theora, add NVenc...

Post by s55 » Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:14 pm

Ok, just so everyone is clear where things are at.

Nvidia NVEnc: We are not interested in adding this, but if someone adds support in libav and provides a minimalist patch to update HandBrakes libav warpper to encode this correctly, it's something we'll look at.

AMD VCE: We've had patches for some time now, but will not be commiting these until upstream libav accepts the patch submitted to them.

Theroa: We'll consider what we want to do with it after the 1.0 release. It's not causing us any problems right at the minute so we are in no rush to remove it.

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