Integrated 'Atomic Parsley' Tagging ability

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randyharris
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Integrated 'Atomic Parsley' Tagging ability

Post by randyharris » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:45 am

I'm using LOSTIFY which uses Atomic Parsley under the covers. It would certainly be great if this ability were integrated right into HandBrake and showed up as a TAGGING options tab when you're encoding for an AppleTV.

In general, wow the new efforts from recent developments are just fabulous. The improvements to Handbrake from several months ago to 0.91 today is just fantastic.

jbrjake
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Post by jbrjake » Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:19 pm

Not happening. Let each app do what it does best. Use HandBrake to encode. Use MetaX to tag.

The interface and workflow for a good tagging app are totally different from the interface and workflow for a good encoding app. And since Mac OS X already has two great tagging apps (Lostify and MetaX), why not use them?

randyharris
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Post by randyharris » Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:22 pm

jbrjake wrote:Not happening. Let each app do what it does best. Use HandBrake to encode. Use MetaX to tag.

The interface and workflow for a good tagging app are totally different from the interface and workflow for a good encoding app. And since Mac OS X already has two great tagging apps (Lostify and MetaX), why not use them?
I respect your opinion, I just don't agree. I'm looking at Handbrake as the tool to make copies of my DVD's for an AppleTV. I think it should handle the tagging as well. You don't agree, that's fine, I'm not going to argue my point. I'll just keep it a two step process as I have been doing.

randyharris
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Post by randyharris » Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:29 pm

btw - thanks for the tip on MetaX, it's far better than Lostify.

eddyg
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Post by eddyg » Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:13 pm

I would like to see HB somehow put in the encoding options used into a tag though - whether that is via passing values to MetaX or adding some tags itself.

jbrjake
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Post by jbrjake » Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:47 pm

eddyg wrote:I would like to see HB somehow put in the encoding options used into a tag though - whether that is via passing values to MetaX or adding some tags itself.
You know all the x264 options are in the file header for mp4 encodes, right? Just do -head 1 movie.mp4 and you'll see them. Of course, it's not all the HB settings...but it's something.

Anyone know if there's a standard tag for this sort of thing? I know there's one to mark down the encoding app's name...

realityking
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Post by realityking » Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:06 pm

I think that's was eddgy means, however it isn't really a standard tag since it's proprietary to iTunes. As far as I know is 'cprt' (to store Copyright information) the only tag thats part of MPEG-4 Part 14. All this aside I'd also (and still, I've requested this before) like to see support for the Encoder Atoom that iTunes uses :)

dynaflash
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Post by dynaflash » Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:42 am

realityking wrote:All this aside I'd also (and still, I've requested this before) like to see support for the Encoder Atoom that iTunes uses :)
Would kind of be nice just like the one MetaX has. HB encodes would already come pretagged with the encoder tag done.

I could talk to kerstetter (metaX developer), maybe he knows an easy way to do it.

As far as a tag with all of the HB settings, another option would be to output a .txt file along with the encode that lists every setting. I do this on a local copy of the macgui already just to keep track of wtf I am doing. comes out <nameofmovie>.mp4 ... <namofmovie>.txt in the same directory. Its the gui that does it in my case, so it wouldnt really help the cli or the various wrappers, but its an option.

realityking
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Post by realityking » Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:44 pm

Thanks to jbrjake the encoder tag will be set in 0.9.2. (Look here.)

sharlin
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Re: Integrated 'Atomic Parsley' Tagging ability

Post by sharlin » Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:51 am

I second this request.

I have been converting my DVDs with Handbrake using the PS3 preset + 2-pass turbo.

My first step after running handbrake is to run AtomicParsley which copies the entire file to another file about 2kb bigger (in order to make room for the tags (atoms) at the beginning of the file).

It would simplify the workflow - and save time and diskspace - if handbrake could automatically add the 2 kb "free" tagging space at the beginning of the output file (.mp4, .m4v)

It would be nice for some folks if it would allow entry of some of the tags, not that I care, I'm a command line kind of person.

FWIW, the Tversity media server makes good use of the
--title, --album, --genre, and --year tags
when serving the PS3 DNLA (upnp) media player.

For iTunes use I add the --stik tag, it makes the video show up under Movies or TV Shows.

rhester
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Re: Integrated 'Atomic Parsley' Tagging ability

Post by rhester » Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:14 pm

There are converters, and there are taggers.

HandBrake is a converter.

MetaX is a tagger.

HandBrake will never become a tagger, just like MetaX will not ever become a converter.

Rodney

maubp
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Re: Integrated 'Atomic Parsley' Tagging ability

Post by maubp » Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:22 pm

sharlin wrote:My first step after running handbrake is to run AtomicParsley which copies the entire file to another file about 2kb bigger (in order to make room for the tags (atoms) at the beginning of the file).
How long does that take? Does MetaX take a similar time?
sharlin wrote:It would simplify the workflow - and save time and diskspace - if handbrake could automatically add the 2 kb "free" tagging space at the beginning of the output file (.mp4, .m4v)
This sounds like a fairly simple tweak (note I am not a HB coder), and I guess it might be worthwhile if lots of people want to use handbrake with AtomicParsley or a similar tagging tool (like MetaX which is based on it).

Darktempest
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Re: Integrated 'Atomic Parsley' Tagging ability

Post by Darktempest » Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:55 pm

This sounds like a fairly simple tweak (note I am not a HB coder), and I guess it might be worthwhile if lots of people want to use handbrake with AtomicParsley or a similar tagging tool (like MetaX which is based on it).
I bet a patch would be appreciated. As it looks, it would have to be included in one of the GUI wrappers calling Atomic and then referencing the appropriate cli switches. Not easy by anybody's listing. Nor is it quick.

maubp
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Re: Integrated 'Atomic Parsley' Tagging ability

Post by maubp » Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:13 pm

Darktempest wrote:[As it looks, it would have to be included in one of the GUI wrappers calling Atomic and then referencing the appropriate cli switches. Not easy by anybody's listing. Nor is it quick.
That wasn't what I meant. Another reason not to want to do this is it would mean complicating the build and installation with an external dependancy. Also, the whole video file would still have to be edited to insert the 2kb header (however long that takes AP to do).

What I meant was looking at AP, and understanding what kind of "blank 2kb header" it creates (maybe its just a lot of empty comment tags?), and then making HB write this when it starts to output the video file. This would be very fast (in terms of run time).

codagirl
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Re: Integrated 'Atomic Parsley' Tagging ability

Post by codagirl » Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:10 am

rhester wrote:There are converters, and there are taggers.

HandBrake is a converter.

MetaX is a tagger.

HandBrake will never become a tagger, just like MetaX will not ever become a converter.

Rodney
Why do you say so?
I've used jesterware on windows and its a converter and a metatagger. It just means it's possible to have a tagging tool built inside handbrake or some other converters. Seperating converters and taggers is just inconvenient.

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s55
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Re: Integrated 'Atomic Parsley' Tagging ability

Post by s55 » Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:22 pm

Nobody said it wasn't possible, just, it's not happening. The reasons are outlined already.

Cyander
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Re: Integrated 'Atomic Parsley' Tagging ability

Post by Cyander » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:28 pm

codagirl wrote:Why do you say so?
I've used jesterware on windows and its a converter and a metatagger. It just means it's possible to have a tagging tool built inside handbrake or some other converters. Seperating converters and taggers is just inconvenient.
To be a nice guy here, this is the reason:

Handbrake has a limited number of people working on it, and to keep it being the best video converter it can be, it can't be anything else. There are some features that simply cannot be done well outside the conversion (chapter markers for example), but tagging isn't one of them. It can be done equally well by a separate tool. Those tools will even be able to provide features that Handbrake volunteers just won't have the time to match, but people will request anyways. It is really a matter that in the end, it is better to have Handbrake be a really good converter, and let other people with time to spare on tagging make a really good tagging app. If someone likes HB + MetaX, or someone else likes HB + Lostify, or a third likes VideoHub + MetaX, nobody has to deal with the bundling that would occur if HB+Lostify were combined into a single app.

What I think would be nice is the ability to have a preference in the GUI to let a user tell Handbrake to send the file to another app after the encode is done... such as MetaX or Lostify (or even iTunes for some people).

Now, if you are willing to delve into the command-line world a bit on Linux/Mac, I am perfectly willing to share some command-line scripts I use to rip TV shows and tag them at the same time (using Atomic Parsley and Handbrake CLI to do the work).

realityking
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Re: Integrated 'Atomic Parsley' Tagging ability

Post by realityking » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:32 pm

Cyander wrote:What I think would be nice is the ability to have a preference in the GUI to let a user tell Handbrake to send the file to another app after the encode is done... such as MetaX or Lostify (or even iTunes for some people).
This actually already exists for MetaX.

Cyander
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Re: Integrated 'Atomic Parsley' Tagging ability

Post by Cyander » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:42 pm

realityking wrote:
Cyander wrote:What I think would be nice is the ability to have a preference in the GUI to let a user tell Handbrake to send the file to another app after the encode is done... such as MetaX or Lostify (or even iTunes for some people).
This actually already exists for MetaX.
Huh, I stand corrected... it might be nice to just be able to say "Open with this app", though. That way HB isn't getting tied to particular 3rd party apps if they go poof.

jbrjake
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Re: Integrated 'Atomic Parsley' Tagging ability

Post by jbrjake » Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:05 pm

Cyander wrote:Huh, I stand corrected... it might be nice to just be able to say "Open with this app", though. That way HB isn't getting tied to particular 3rd party apps if they go poof.
It's because Rodney (the author of MetaX, not rhester) stays in touch with us on the forum and IRC, making that sort of thing work well. He's always the first to restore compatibility after we do something new in the MP4 structure, so there's usually a good chance that it'll be compatible with HandBrake's output.

Cyander
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Re: Integrated 'Atomic Parsley' Tagging ability

Post by Cyander » Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:39 pm

By all means, leave MetaX the default. It is the best GUI-based tag editor the Mac has right now. :)

I am just saying that it might be better served to have a preference control which app loads it, and make MetaX the default rather than tie the mini-feature's usefulness to MetaX exclusively. Heck, I can see some people wanting to rip directly into iTunes as a good thing. :)

golfman
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Re: Integrated 'Atomic Parsley' Tagging ability

Post by golfman » Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:18 am

If I can add my $0.02, here's why I'd like to see tagging in HandBrake and its not quite as simple as HandBrake = Converter, MetaX = tagger.

- If anybody has looked at a MP4 from Apple (and here's the where HandBrake comes in), each chapter not only has text but a very nice thumbnail of the video at the marker. I did a quick Google and its not immediately obvious if AtomicParsley can handle this (which is used extensively by MetaX), maybe MP4Box could? Either way, the decoded vide frame at the chapter marker would need to be passed to the tagger.
- First for Linux users, there is no MetaX. I've tried it under Wine and its not working as yet (I'm still debugging Wine/libs etc). I have all of my content on a Linux box. Yes I could access it via Samba/SMB from a Windows m/c but even with Gig network card its slow compared to local HDD as MetaX (AtomicParsely) iterates through the whole file. The best option for me at the moment is to transcode under Linux, copy to Windows box, tag and then copy back to Linux PC.

Would be a nice feature but I also understand that from a priority point of view it might be low for a lot of folks who have MetaX running natively on a Max under OSX.

eddyg
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Re: Integrated 'Atomic Parsley' Tagging ability

Post by eddyg » Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:45 pm

Adding the chapter thumbnails is certainly something that HB should be doing. Just needs a developer to actually do it, which also means knowing the format for them (which I don't).

Reverse engineering it is a pain, and not a task I really want to do.

Cheers, Ed.

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