Webm support

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Djfe
Bright Spark User
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 8:01 pm

Webm support

Post by Djfe » Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:01 pm

What do you think about supporting a 3rd container format in the future: Webm?
http://www.webmproject.org/docs/container/

It might not be as good as MKV or MP4 or as widely spread like they are but Webm will stay like this forever if there is no interest in it.
A new good transcoders for it could arouse futher interest ;)
Especially since Handbrake supports VP8 now, another container format could be interesting (especially when VP9 will be usable in the future)

of course someone needs to put some effort into integrating another container format into Handbrake with all it quirks but since Webm is pretty much a trimmed MKV it shouldn't be that hard.

there's probably a lot of code that can be reused to create webm video files.


If you think Handbrake is not suited for integrating webm, I would like to hear why you think so.

Since some webbrowsers support it unlike MKV it could be interesting if people would like to put some videos onto their (small) websites.
MP4 is kinda protected by patents, although you might say the same about webm (or it's used codecs), Google presents it as an open standard like MKV at least.

Looking forward to your oppinions on this :)

VP9
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 12:29 am

Re: Webm support

Post by VP9 » Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:30 pm

Djfe wrote: Especially since Handbrake supports VP8 now, another container format could be interesting (especially when VP9 will be usable in the future)
If I remember correctly, VP8 was added to handbrake just to replace Theora. And why do you think VP9 is not yet usable?

I would really like to see VP9 included in handbrake but I think it is highly unlikely (I hope I am mistaken) as HEVC can offer the same as VP9 can, but even better (while not being better at the same time).

About the inclusion of WebM as a container format. It is highly unlikely, but I support this idea.

Again, I hope I am mistaken.

moneymatt4life
Veteran User
Posts: 436
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:26 am

Re: Webm support

Post by moneymatt4life » Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:24 pm

am i wrong or does WebM really only support VP8/9 video and Vorbis/Opus audio? :?

VP9
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 12:29 am

Re: Webm support

Post by VP9 » Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:30 pm

moneymatt4life wrote:am i wrong or does WebM really only support VP8/9 video and Vorbis/Opus audio? :?
Yes.

mduell
Veteran User
Posts: 6474
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:54 pm

Re: Webm support

Post by mduell » Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:36 pm

VP9 wrote:
Djfe wrote: Especially since Handbrake supports VP8 now, another container format could be interesting (especially when VP9 will be usable in the future)
If I remember correctly, VP8 was added to handbrake just to replace Theora. And why do you think VP9 is not yet usable?
He's seen the benchmarks and results?

Djfe
Bright Spark User
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 8:01 pm

Re: Webm support

Post by Djfe » Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:06 pm

Well, I just read John's recent review of the current status of VP9

He wants to implement as well/is interested in it.
The problem is that it is still too slow.
Quoting him Multicore encoding has been disabled 1 year ago as well, but that was just the last statement about it he found.
Quality-wise it is not perfect but ok-ish.

But just read it for yourself:
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=27343#p146604
(btw. at the moment the thread is just one below this one in the feature request list ;) )

VP9
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 12:29 am

Re: Webm support

Post by VP9 » Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:13 pm

mduell wrote:
VP9 wrote:
Djfe wrote: Especially since Handbrake supports VP8 now, another container format could be interesting (especially when VP9 will be usable in the future)
If I remember correctly, VP8 was added to handbrake just to replace Theora. And why do you think VP9 is not yet usable?
He's seen the benchmarks and results?
I know how slow VP9 currently is. I am encoding videos with it:

Code: Select all

Pass 1/2 frame 3069/3070  491200B    1280b/f   30699b/s   24985 ms (122.83 fps)
Pass 2/2 frame 1134/1109 24756709B 3524034 ms 19.31 fpm [ETA  1:44:01]    7626F
But keep in mind it is using only 1 core of my processor. If you do not have patience to wait, you can use faster settings.

It is usable as long as you can use it.

Smithcraft
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:04 pm

Re: Webm support

Post by Smithcraft » Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:52 am

What would the benefit be to using such a restrictive container?

SC

Djfe
Bright Spark User
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 8:01 pm

Re: Webm support

Post by Djfe » Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:07 pm

Not for playing back movies or archiving, if you just need it for your PC, but for putting them on your website and stuff it is quite useful.

I don't know really userfriendly programs that would allow exporting in webm.
(I don't think FFMPEG is enduserfriendly)

Talking about putting videos on your website: MP4 has also options (web-optimized)
If you want to upload only to youtube nothing of this matters of course, since YouTube accepts almost anything and converts/transcodes it anyways using FFMPEG, but for your own website or videowebsites that don't offer this service of transcoding (and only allow certain containers/codecs) this might be the solution, if you don't like MP4 too much.

And after all what speaks against implementing it?

adrienj
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:09 pm

Re: Webm support

Post by adrienj » Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:50 pm

WebM support is still wished to put videos onto websites, mainly because of patent issues.

Firefox/Firefox for Android/Firefox OS supports the format MP4 in some cases, but only when a third-party decoder is available.
To display a video using HTML5, which works in the newest versions of all major browsers, you must serve your video in both WebM format and MPEG H.264 AAC format.
Source: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/doc ... ia_formats

Thanks

Terryzzz
New User
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:20 pm

Re: Webm support

Post by Terryzzz » Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:26 pm

I have 'webm' support directly out of Premiere Pro and Adobe Media Encoder, although I have found to be getting better compression results from Handbrake for the MP4 and would like to match that performance if possible by using Handbrake to output the files to webm for me too. The videos I create are standardly for our business website and need to be deeply compressed as they are server side and not brought in from youtube/vimeo for these web banners. I think web formats may change but webm and ogg files seem to be strong in the html5 architecture.

Just personally, I would love Handbrake to be able to output webm.

Cheers and keep up the good work!

Djfe
Bright Spark User
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 8:01 pm

Re: Webm support

Post by Djfe » Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:44 pm

just a tip until Handbrake supports webm:
Output from AME/PP to a Frameserver like FFmpeg
AME renders the image, FFmpeg encodes it on-the-fly to whatever format(s) you like -> less steps in your workflow

use webm as a container for vp9 or vp8 + opus or vorbis

also possible of course are mp4 with h.264 and aac for Safari and edge/ie (ios and windows)

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