Blu-Ray Subtitles

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daaavey
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:20 am

Blu-Ray Subtitles

Post by daaavey »

I have finally figured out how to successfully RIP Blu-rays using Handbrake. I use AnyDVD HD to RIP the Blu-ray to a decrypted ISO file, then I mount the ISO, and find the largest .m2ts file in the STREAM folder and select this as my source in Handbrake. In the case of an "out of order" playlist of multiple .m2ts files (that I have not encountered yet), I understand I will need to use BDinfo to find the correct playlist order, then tsMuxeR to create a single file that can then be RIPed in Handbrake. (If this ability could some how be merged into Handbrake someday that would be AWESOME!)

All that being said, there is still 1 thing I am unable to do, which is to be able to utilize any subtitle tracks on the Blu-ray. I would like to request that a feature be added that would extract and convert the Blu-ray subtitle tracks into VOBsubs that can be embedded into an .mkv or .m4v file.

I would like to cast my vote for this feature to be added in the next release! I was very excited that the previous release finally added support for multiple embedded DVD vobsub files, but I still need to be able to do this with my Blu-ray RIPs! For me, this feature takes the highest priority over all other features!

In fact, I would happily PAY $100 for this feature! Speaking of which, why is Handbrake still free? It is better than Nero, which I paid $80 for and never use anymore! I would happily pay for this software, in return for faster updates and enhancements.

Thanks for the great software! Keep up the good work!
TedJ
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Re: Blu-Ray Subtitles

Post by TedJ »

daaavey wrote:...If this ability could some how be merged into Handbrake someday that would be AWESOME!
Handbrake can parse a BD directory as well as a DVD... simply open the folder above BDMV and select your title, as usual.

PGS subtitle support is on the to do list, no ETA at this stage.
daaavey
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:20 am

Re: Blu-Ray Subtitles

Post by daaavey »

TedJ wrote:
daaavey wrote:PGS subtitle support is on the to do list, no ETA at this stage.
Or at the very minimum, if I could somehow import (and embed) an external VOBsub file (in addition to the current ability to import an .srt file) while RIPing, I could make that work too. (I could then find a program to convert the PGS file into a VOBsub, and then embed it in Handbrake as I RIP the .m2ts file into an .mkv or .m4v file)
TedJ
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Re: Blu-Ray Subtitles

Post by TedJ »

Use mkvmerge to mux the required audio, video and vobsub streams prior to transcoding with Handbrake would work.

BDSup2Sub is the program you want to convert the subtitles prior to muxing.
daaavey
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:20 am

Re: Blu-Ray Subtitles

Post by daaavey »

TedJ wrote:
daaavey wrote:...If this ability could some how be merged into Handbrake someday that would be AWESOME!
Handbrake can parse a BD directory as well as a DVD... simply open the folder above BDMV and select your title, as usual.
I was referring to the fact that some Blu-rays apparently have the title movie split into multiple .m2ts files on the disk, that are sometimes out of order. If there could someday be a way to merge multiple source files into a single file during the RIP process that would be excellent! One example where I recently needed this ability was when I tried to RIP a 2 sided DVD into a single .m4v file. It was a major pain! I finally succeeded in doing this by merging the .VOB files from both sides into one big file, and RIPing that, but for some reason I lost all the subtitles in the process, even though they were the same on both sides of the disk. (Since it was a foreign language film, Das Boot, this was a big problem! I finally gave up, and RIPed the movie into 2 files. Part 1 and Part 2.)
daaavey
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:20 am

Re: Blu-Ray Subtitles

Post by daaavey »

TedJ wrote:Use mkvmerge to mux the required audio, video and vobsub streams prior to transcoding with Handbrake would work.

BDSup2Sub is the program you want to convert the subtitles prior to muxing.
Thanks! I'll try that. Won't that require me to RIP the file twice though, reducing the quality?
mkelley
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Re: Blu-Ray Subtitles

Post by mkelley »

No, you're missing the point -- Handbrake reads the folder of the playlist and thus avoids the problem of multiple M2TS files (because the playlist contains all that is needed to make one long movie). You just pick the title you want and Handbrake does the rest.

For subs you can demux the PGS from the rip you already have on disc (so only rip once). Here is the workflow -- rip to your harddrive, use Handbrake on the folder (to get the main movie), use TSMuxer to rip out the PGS stream, use BDSup2Sub to translate to idx, and finally use mkvmerge to merge the idx with the MKV file Handbrake produced (it's my workflow for ALL my blu-rays, which is all I ever do nowadays).

The one and only "catch" is that multiple M2TS situation you mentioned. When and if Handbrake does subs we won't have to deal with it (so I'm hoping the Handbrake devs will get to it sometime this year) but in the meantime you will have to use BDInfo which will tell you which playlist contains the subs you need. Then in TSMuxer you use the *playlist*, not the M2TS file, in order to demux the PGS stream.
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Rodeo
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Re: Blu-Ray Subtitles

Post by Rodeo »

1) In the nightlies, if you enable level 2 logging in HandBrake, it will write the playlist number to the log during scan:

Code: Select all

[16:21:37] bd: scanning title 1
[16:21:37] bd: playlist 00000.MPLS
2) I prefer to use eac3to (via ClownBD) to extract PGS subs (it finds the longest title(s) for you so you don't need to check the HB logs for the main movie).

Also, both workflows require a Windows machine, partition, or VM; if you want a Mac or Linux-only workflow, you can try one of the the following workflows.

MKV output with soft subtitles:
  • Make a backup of the disc with MakeMKV
  • Encode the movie with HandBrake to MKV
  • Make an MKV out of the backup with MakeMKV (just the video and the subs you need)
  • Extract the subtitles from the MKV (with mkvextract - no up-to-date GUI is available, unfortunately)
  • Note that as of version 1.6.10, there are several reports of misc. issues with MakeMKV's MKV muxer,
    which may or may not affect this workflow
  • Convert the subtitles to VobSub with BDSup2Sub
  • Delete MakeMKV's MKV file (but not HandBrake's)
  • Merge the HandBrake encode and the subtitles with mkvmerge GUI (part of Mkvtoolnix)
MP4 output with burned-in subtitles:
  • Make a backup of the disc with MakeMKV
  • Make an MKV out of the backup with MakeMKV (video, audio and subtitles)
  • Extract the subtitles from the MKV (with mkvextract - no up-to-date GUI is available, unfortunately)
  • Convert the subtitles to VobSub with BDSup2Sub; keep the one subtitle track you want
  • Merge the MKV's video and audio with the converted subtitle tack using mkvmerge GUI (part of Mkvtoolnix)
  • Note that as of version 1.6.10, there are several reports of misc. issues with MakeMKV's MKV muxer,
    which may or may not affect this workflow
  • Encode that MKV with HandBrake; select the subtitle track and choose "Burned In"
MP4 output with soft subtitles:
  • Make a backup of the disc with MakeMKV
  • Find the subtitles on the internet (SRT files only)
  • Prepare the subtitles (sync adjustments, extract forced subs from a full track to another track, etc.)
  • Encode the movie to MP4 with HandBrake; add the SRT files via the subtitle panel
  • It's also possible to encode first without subs, check sync using the MP4 and the SRT file in e.g. VLC, and add the SRT after the encode using Subler (Mac-only)
daaavey
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Re: Blu-Ray Subtitles

Post by daaavey »

mkelley wrote:No, you're missing the point -- Handbrake reads the folder of the playlist and thus avoids the problem of multiple M2TS files (because the playlist contains all that is needed to make one long movie). You just pick the title you want and Handbrake does the rest.

For subs you can demux the PGS from the rip you already have on disc (so only rip once). Here is the workflow -- rip to your harddrive, use Handbrake on the folder (to get the main movie), use TSMuxer to rip out the PGS stream, use BDSup2Sub to translate to idx, and finally use mkvmerge to merge the idx with the MKV file Handbrake produced (it's my workflow for ALL my blu-rays, which is all I ever do nowadays).

The one and only "catch" is that multiple M2TS situation you mentioned. When and if Handbrake does subs we won't have to deal with it (so I'm hoping the Handbrake devs will get to it sometime this year) but in the meantime you will have to use BDInfo which will tell you which playlist contains the subs you need. Then in TSMuxer you use the *playlist*, not the M2TS file, in order to demux the PGS stream.
Thanks mkelley! That worked perfectly! It was a long drawn out time consuming pain in the butt, but it worked exactly like you specified, and at least now I finally have a way to utilize the subtitles on my Blu-rays! I was wondering how I was going to re-RIP the subtitles to 1280x720 (My usual resolution for RIPing Blu-rays), but thankfully I was able to adjust the resolution of the PGS files in BDSup2Sub.
:D
mkelley
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Re: Blu-Ray Subtitles

Post by mkelley »

Your welcome. Yeah, it seems like a long process, and I'll be *really* happy when Handbrake can do it and save this (old man) the trouble, but after you've done it a few hundred times (no kidding) it won't seem that bad.
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Rodeo
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Re: Blu-Ray Subtitles

Post by Rodeo »

2 or 3 times should be enough to get used to it, IMO.
daaavey
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Re: Blu-Ray Subtitles

Post by daaavey »

mkelley wrote:Your welcome. Yeah, it seems like a long process, and I'll be *really* happy when Handbrake can do it and save this (old man) the trouble, but after you've done it a few hundred times (no kidding) it won't seem that bad.
Rodeo wrote:2 or 3 times should be enough to get used to it, IMO.
Yeah, I'm sure you're right. The "long draw out" part included the time it took to locate, download, install, and test the latest versions of those applications that you recommended. It turned out that the Mac version of tsMuxeR that already had installed on my Mac didn't work, so I had to install the Windows version instead. It is just as well since the other programs (BDsup2sub, and MKVmerge) are Windows-based applications only. This of course wasn't a problem since I have Windows XP installed (via VMware Fusion) on my Mac. Then it took me a couple of times to play with the settings in BDsup2sub before I settled on the "Lanczo3" filter to produce the most legible subtitles at 720p. (They still look a little rasterized, but at least they are quite legible)

I seem to have the process down now, so it should be easy in the future. MKVmerge is excellent! I didn't realize previously that you could add (or remove) subtitle or audio tracks to a video file without re-RIPing it.

For anyone else looking to do this here is a re-cap of my workflow:

STEP 1. Make a decrypted copy of the Blu-ray disk in .iso format using AnyDVD HD. (After you insert the disk into your BD-R drive, simply right-click on the AnyDVD HD icon in the system tray, and click on "Rip to Image". (I should add that all you need to do this step is a Blu-ray (BD-R) drive attached to a computer that has Windows installed on it (I use Windows XP), and a copy of AnyDVD HD, which you will need to buy from Slysoft. No other special software or drivers are required. You won't be able to PLAY the Blu-ray disk directly, but you WILL be able to copy it using AnyDVD HD.) Once you have made an .iso of your Blu-ray, you can eject it. You won't be needing it anymore during the rest of this process. (I prefer to work from an .iso saved to a hard drive, rather than from the disk itself, so as to spare my BD-R drive countless hours of unnecessary rotations that will shorten its lifespan.)

STEP 2. Mount the .iso file that I just made. Personally, I do this on the Macintosh side, and then share the volume with Windows XP using the shared folders feature in VMware Fusion. I'm sure you could also find some type of .ISO mounter (Virtual Drive) for Windows that will allow you to mount such a large ISO file, in the case that you aren't using a Mac with VMware Fusion on it. (can anyone recommend anything?)

STEP 3. RIP the Blu-ray disk using Handbrake 64-bit for Macintosh. (You can also use the Windows version just as effectively to do the RIP, but since my copy of Windows XP is only 32-bit, it takes 2-3 times longer for the Windows version of Handbrake to perform the same task). I prefer to use the following settings to produce quality video in 720p (While 720p is not as good as 1080p, the quality difference is minor and subtle, as 720P is about 2/3 the size of 1080p, and the resulting file size is less than half of what it would be in 1080p. Expect the resulting MKV size to be about 4GB on average per movie using the following settings:

The first thing I do is open the "Toggle presets" bar, and click on "High Profile" before every RIP. This seems to adjust all the settings on the "Advanced" tab to the proper settings desired for Blu-ray (or DVD) RIPs.

Under Picture Settings (click on the icon near the top right of the window to open picture settings):
Set the Width (horizontal resolution) to 1280, and click on on "Keep aspect ratio". Leave the Height (vertical resolution) alone. This will scale the video down to 720p. Usually "Automatic" cropping does a great job, but if there are any black bars showing on any of the sides, click on "Custom" cropping, and adjust the crops to cut off any black areas. Be careful not to trim too much on the bottom, or you may cut into your subtitles.

Under Output Settings, select MKV file

Under the Video tab:
Codec: h.264 (x264)
Framerate: Same as source
Click on the tickbox next to "Average bitrate (kbps):" and enter "5000". This is (in my opinion) the perfect bitrate for a Blu-ray that is being RIPed at 1280x720. (If you decide to keep the resolution at 1920x1080, you will need to set this number much higher - at least 10000.)
Turn on 2-pass encoding (You may as well do it right the first time, at the highest level of quality)
Turn on "Turbo first pass" (You can leave this off if you want, but it will take longer, and I personally haven't been able to detect any difference in the resulting quality when I left this off)

Under the Audio tab:
Click on the 2nd audio track (that will have been added after you clicked on "High Profile"), and change it to "None". Change the "Mixdown" of the 1st track to "Stereo". (I have had some strange results on occasion when using Dolby Surround setting, where the audio sounded "muffled", so I don't recommend using that setting. Stereo seems to do the best job. Personally I think using 5.1 is pointless since you only have 2 ears, and since most surround sound systems remodulate the 5.1 settings anyway. It also adds a lot more size to your RIP file when you leave the audio in 5.1) Leave the Bitrate at 160Kbps.

SUBTITLES
You can do nothing here, since Handbrake doesn't currently support Blu-ray subtitles.

Leave the rest of the settings alone. They will have already been set properly when you clicked on "High Profile". Note that if you click on "High Profile" again at this time, it will reset all your audio and video settings again, and you will have to reset them all again as I specified above.

STEP 4: Open tsMuxeR and "add" the .m2ts file that contains the movie. (It should be the largest file in the stream folder, located in the BDMV folder on) Click on the boxes next to all the subtitle streams that you want to use (de-click all the other checkboxes). They will be the files that say "PGS" under codec, followed by a brief desription provided by the creator of the Blu-ray. If you aren't sure which PGS files you want to use, leave them all selected. Under "Output" click on "Demux", then select the location where you would like your PGS files to be saved. Click on "Start demuxing".

STEP 5: Open BDsup2sub (You will need to install Java Runtime before you can launch the BDsup2sub.jar application), and convert the subtitles, one at a time, to SUB/IDX format. Change the resolution to 1280*720, then decide which filter you want to use to de-res the subtitle file. (Personally I like the Lanczo3 filter the best)

STEP 6: Open MKVmerge GUI (part of MKVtoolnix) and add the MKV file you created in Handbrake. Now add each of the .idx files that you created in BDsup2sub as well. Click on "Start Muxing", and in about 10-15 minutes you will have successfully added your subtitles to your MKV file!

Hope this helps someone!
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Rodeo
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Re: Blu-Ray Subtitles

Post by Rodeo »

daaavey wrote:It is just as well since the other programs (BDsup2sub, and MKVmerge) are Windows-based applications only.
That's incorrect. Mkvtoolnix apps (mkvmerge etc.) and MakeMKV are cross-platform, and BDSup2Sub is a Java app, so it'll run on anything with a recent JVM (maybe 1.5 or later?).

tsMuxeR has a Mac version which works under Leopard (someone has hacked together a special build which should/may work under 10.6 with some font tweaks, available for download from VideoHelp).

Windows-only apps mostly include eac3to and its various GUI wrappers (e.g. ClownBD), and of course AnyDVD and DVDFab.
trondmm
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Re: Blu-Ray Subtitles

Post by trondmm »

Rodeo wrote:Windows-only apps mostly include eac3to and its various GUI wrappers (e.g. ClownBD), and of course AnyDVD and DVDFab.
DVDFab (end eac3to, too, afaik) can run under Wine in Linux, though.
Balthazar2k4
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Re: Blu-Ray Subtitles

Post by Balthazar2k4 »

I am backing up my BDs to my media server for playback on my ATV2. The easiest method I have found for dealing with PGS subs is the following:

1. Rip disk using AnotherEac3toGUI with AnyDVD HD. I select all of the subs I am interested in plus allowing the program to determine if there are any forced subs and tell it to keep the HD audio. This program is very similar to MakeMKV, but it is free and does convert the subs to SUB/IDX format (which I am unsure of whether MakeMKV does that).

2. Load the MKV into Handbrake's latest nightly build and I am off and running. Handbrake imports the chapters and subs with ease. I can then make all of the selections I am looking for.

I agree that native PGS support would make life much easier, but I find the above to be an acceptable workaround given the other options available.
Balthazar2k4
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Re: Blu-Ray Subtitles

Post by Balthazar2k4 »

daaavey wrote:STEP 3. RIP the Blu-ray disk using Handbrake 64-bit for Macintosh. (You can also use the Windows version just as effectively to do the RIP, but since my copy of Windows XP is only 32-bit, it takes 2-3 times longer for the Windows version of Handbrake to perform the same task).
Are you saying the 64-bit version is 2 or 3 times faster than the 32-bit version? I have been using x264 for many years across a variety of systems and have never seen that much performance variation. I am presently using a Core i7-980x and I have tried both 64-bit and 32-bit versions of x264 via RipBot264/BluRip/StaxRip and when compressing 1080p to 720p have only witnessed 2-3fps difference.
Last edited by TedJ on Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed borked quote.
Bernard0105
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Re: Blu-Ray Subtitles

Post by Bernard0105 »

I am using Handbrake since 1 year now and it is a great software for my HTPC.
I update it regularly from the nighty builds, It is always stable and fast, with new features.

But one great feature is still missing : the support of PGS subtitles for BD. why it is so long to come ? a lot of users would like to have it !
The workaround with TSMUxer -> SUP2SUB -> Mkvmerge: must be done manually, is not easy to proceed, and is even more difficult with multiple "m2ts" BD. There are more and more multi M2TS BD, because BD producers includes some preambles in local languages.

I have seen somewhere in this feature request forum : "there is no developer interest to implement BD subtitles", really ??? The support of BD subtitle is THE missing feature for making handbrake the perfect video encoder !!!

Please, could you do it ?
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Rodeo
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Re: Blu-Ray Subtitles

Post by Rodeo »

Bernard0105 wrote:I have seen somewhere in this feature request forum : "there is no developer interest to implement BD subtitles", really ???
Not sure where you read that, but it's not true and/or outdated. PGS support is on the to-do list, but the developer who has shown interest in working on it is busy working on other things.
TedJ
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Re: Blu-Ray Subtitles

Post by TedJ »

Like his day job and his family. Selfish, I know... ;-)
Flo
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Re: Blu-Ray Subtitles

Post by Flo »

I'm also eagerly awaiting PGS support. My current workflow (MakeMKV -> MKVExtractGUI2 -> BDsup2sub conversion to idx/sub -> MMG -> Handbrake to m4v with vobsub burn-in) is fine for the occasional movie, but once you're dealing with entire TV seasons with forced subtitles, it gets tedious quite quickly.

If Handbrake could do the pgs->vobsub conversion internally, that would shave off a lot of time, even if the result isn't as smooth as native pgs rendering would be.
Ryushin
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Re: Blu-Ray Subtitles

Post by Ryushin »

Because of the whole blu-ray subtitles problem with Handbrake, I've had to used Ripbot264 under windows to process my 500+ Blu-rays. All my DVD's I still process under Handbrake under Linux. Anxiously awaiting subtitle support for Blu-rays so I can ditch windows for encoding. Though, I have to admit, the new distributed encoding of Ribto264 1.17.0 is fantastic. I have three machines working simultaneously on encoding the same movie.
Mefyrx
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Re: Blu-Ray Subtitles

Post by Mefyrx »

Since we can't get subtitles from Blu-Ray

I've followed some advise and i've start using:
- eac3to324 //HdBrStreamExtractor
To extract the subtitle as a .sup file

Then to merge them with the proper MKV, i've use:
- mkvmerge GUI

Works fine
My only concern is that if my MKV file is 4 759 099 KB
I add 2 SUP file of size 27 661 KB and 28 968 KB
How come my final size is 4 779 670 KB

Am i loosing anything anywhere?
I haven't found a MKVMerge GUI forum so i took the chance of asking here

It says in the "guide" that when saving:

"mmg tries very hard to find suitable spots for writing the modified headers. It will overwrite existing header elements at their original position, EbmlVoid elements and all other instances of the headers it finds. It will also update the meta seek heads so that the headers can be found easily by applications reading that file.

After saving the file the header editor will automatically reload and analyze it again. This is done to ensure that no file corruoption occurs. As it slows down the process of saving the file considerably this safety feature will be removed in a future release of mmg after enough testing has been done. "

Is this why i just gain a couple of megs, by modifying the header?
If so, is Handbrake Header better than MKVMerge header ...
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Rodeo
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Re: Blu-Ray Subtitles

Post by Rodeo »

PGS subtitles in MKV can be compressed with zlib, which is why they are smaller when inside the MKV. No information is lost in that process.
Mefyrx
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Re: Blu-Ray Subtitles

Post by Mefyrx »

I understand

Thanks
Bernard0105
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Re: Blu-Ray Subtitles

Post by Bernard0105 »

Great job !
I installed the last handbrake nightly build, and there is now the PGS subtitle support for Blue-ray !!
Fantastic ! :D

I discover also, that you are working on a new GUI.
May I suggest you, to decrease the require windows size on the main Handbrake UI screen ?

Because your current design requires at least a 1024 pixel wide window, and this is quite a lot of space.
In HTPC world, some peoples, like me, are using a smal screen to control the HTPC, and that creates problem.
I suggest you should put the "presets" UI as a first TAB in the main UI, it will save 30% of the window size, without changing the whole UI design.

Thank you making handbrake the best encoder !

Bernard
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