[Rejected] Presets for Target Size

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Deanjo
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[Rejected] Presets for Target Size

Post by Deanjo »

I apologize if this has already been requested or is already present on other OS versions of handbrake but in the linux gui at least there is no preset target sizes. Example: 1/6th DVD5, 1/5th DVD5 ...,DVD-R,DVD+R,DVD-DL. Much like how old AutoGK had.
dynaflash
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Re: Presets for Target Size

Post by dynaflash »

It is neither present nor has been requested afaik on *any* platform. In general Target Size is considered bad form for any type of decent video encoding from any kind of a quality perspective. In other words you have not missed anything. It does not exist and likely never will in any official preset.
Deanjo
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Re: Presets for Target Size

Post by Deanjo »

I understand the emphasis on quality based modes but sometimes people just want to burn their media to optical media. In my case it's sporting events that I want to burn to DVD-9's.
TedJ
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Re: Presets for Target Size

Post by TedJ »

Target filesize and a calculator, perhaps?
Deanjo
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Re: [Rejected] Presets for Target Size

Post by Deanjo »

TedJ wrote:Target filesize and a calculator, perhaps?
Why would you need a calculator? The bitrates are already calculated by the target filesize option. It seems to me if you bother to even put the option of target file size in the application (even though it is not the purist's way) then at least make it a complete feature. One of the reasons people use handbrake is because it is a self contained application that does not require external solutions. Even though you have decided to "reject" the feature I have yet to read one legitimate reason to reject it.
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Rodeo
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Re: [Rejected] Presets for Target Size

Post by Rodeo »

Because there are enough built-in presets as it is.

If you want target size presets, create your own custom presets.
nightstrm
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Re: [Rejected] Presets for Target Size

Post by nightstrm »

Deanjo wrote:
TedJ wrote:Target filesize and a calculator, perhaps?
Why would you need a calculator? The bitrates are already calculated by the target filesize option. It seems to me if you bother to even put the option of target file size in the application (even though it is not the purist's way) then at least make it a complete feature. One of the reasons people use handbrake is because it is a self contained application that does not require external solutions. Even though you have decided to "reject" the feature I have yet to read one legitimate reason to reject it.
If I remember correctly, there have been on-and-off casual discussions regarding removing target size mode completely from Handbrake since its a function that is rarely (if ever) used or tested by any of the dev team. So far, it hasn't been removed.
Deanjo
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Re: [Rejected] Presets for Target Size

Post by Deanjo »

That would be really sad if they did remove it. I find the exact opposite. Almost everybody I know (13 users off the top of my head) that uses handbrake uses it in target size mode with the exception of one guy that uses it for ripping to an ipod. All the others use it for transcoding their HD tv captures.
jbrjake
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Re: [Rejected] Presets for Target Size

Post by jbrjake »

Well that's an excellent reason for us to drop it then, since it is not in our interest to make it easy for people to produce low-quality output using questionable rate control choices.
mduell
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Re: [Rejected] Presets for Target Size

Post by mduell »

To be fair they could also be creating bloated output using questionable rate control choices.
Deanjo
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Re: [Rejected] Presets for Target Size

Post by Deanjo »

jbrjake wrote:Well that's an excellent reason for us to drop it then, since it is not in our interest to make it easy for people to produce low-quality output using questionable rate control choices.
I find it kind of funny all this "quality" bruhaha when handbrake caters to devices with low quality playback to begin with (iDevices).
jbrjake
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Re: [Rejected] Presets for Target Size

Post by jbrjake »

Err....modern "iDevices" support high profile h.264 at a sufficient level for the resolutions they support, and HandBrake's default settings are not even intended for mobile devices. You are not making a valid point.
Deanjo
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Re: [Rejected] Presets for Target Size

Post by Deanjo »

jbrjake wrote:Err....modern "iDevices" support high profile h.264 at a sufficient level for the resolutions they support, and HandBrake's default settings are not even intended for mobile devices. You are not making a valid point.
No? 5th Gen iPods for example only support baseline profile up to 1.5 Mbit and is supported on Handbrake so the point is valid.
jamiemlaw
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Re: [Rejected] Presets for Target Size

Post by jamiemlaw »

  1. The fifth gen iPods are almost five years old. They can hardly be described as "modern iDevices", considering the first iPod came out only nine years ago.
  2. It only has a resolution of 320x240. The iPod Legacy preset achieves a higher quality per pixel at that size than does the High Profile preset on a 720p source.
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Rodeo
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Re: [Rejected] Presets for Target Size

Post by Rodeo »

jamiemlaw wrote:
  1. The fifth gen iPods are almost five years old. They can hardly be described as "modern iDevices", considering the first iPod came out only nine years ago.
  2. It only has a resolution of 320x240. The iPod Legacy preset achieves a higher quality per pixel at that size than does the High Profile preset on a 720p source.
The iPod Legacy preset is 640 wide.
jamiemlaw
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Re: [Rejected] Presets for Target Size

Post by jamiemlaw »

Okay, I mean after adjusting the preset's picture dimensions to 320x240.

Yes, iPod 5G supports 640x480, but if you're encoding solely for that device, there's no point in going above 240p. I was just making the point that HandBrake aims to maximise quality per pixel rather than pure quality. You could claim that a 240p encoding viewed on an HD TV is rubbish, and you'd be right; but on the other hand, view it on an iPod classic and it's no different than watching a 480p version of the same thing.
Deanjo
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Re: [Rejected] Presets for Target Size

Post by Deanjo »

BTW I should also add that only from 3GS/3G onwards have the iDevices supported which are only a year old.
dynaflash
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Re: [Rejected] Presets for Target Size

Post by dynaflash »

Deanjo wrote:BTW I should also add that only from 3GS/3G onwards have the iDevices supported which are only a year old.
In the end its all ancilliary, it will be what it will be. No there won't be a built in preset for target size. Yes, all ui's let you create all of the custom presets you want. Done deal. Fwiw I *never* use any of the built in presets personally since I like to set up my own. I suggest you do the same. Arguing the merits of iDevices has nothing to do with it.
Bullfrog
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Re: [Rejected] Presets for Target Size

Post by Bullfrog »

I'm a little surprised at the attitude expressed here. I'm somewhat new to Handbrake, but found it a good program that's simple enough to use and get good results. However, the Apple presets are of no use to me, and so I ended up here on a search for presets and why some settings (like MP3) aren't saved.

What's with the elitist attitudes? They're thinking of dumping the target size option because it's of no personal use to the individuals doing the code? I use the target size all the time, and regardless of whether it's good enough for a gourmet videophile, I think that's my decision. Perhaps your next car won't have a brake, because "I" don't use one, it's bad practice and wasteful of energy. Or your next computer won't have programs that "I" find unnecessary because "I" don't use them. Handbrake comes with a bunch of useless presets for Apple products, unless you're an Apple user, is that a requirement too?

I did like Handbrake and just came here to find out why it won't save MP3 in the presets. But I use fixed output size all the time, and am offering no apologies for doing so; if I wanted a nanny, I'd hire one, but this arrogant attitude expressed here gives me second thoughts, never mind.
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JohnAStebbins
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Re: [Rejected] Presets for Target Size

Post by JohnAStebbins »

Bullfrog wrote:I'm a little surprised at the attitude expressed here. I'm somewhat new to Handbrake, but found it a good program that's simple enough to use and get good results. However, the Apple presets are of no use to me, and so I ended up here on a search for presets and why some settings (like MP3) aren't saved.

What's with the elitist attitudes? They're thinking of dumping the target size option because it's of no personal use to the individuals doing the code? I use the target size all the time, and regardless of whether it's good enough for a gourmet videophile, I think that's my decision. Perhaps your next car won't have a brake, because "I" don't use one, it's bad practice and wasteful of energy. Or your next computer won't have programs that "I" find unnecessary because "I" don't use them. Handbrake comes with a bunch of useless presets for Apple products, unless you're an Apple user, is that a requirement too?

I did like Handbrake and just came here to find out why it won't save MP3 in the presets. But I use fixed output size all the time, and am offering no apologies for doing so; if I wanted a nanny, I'd hire one, but this arrogant attitude expressed here gives me second thoughts, never mind.
Translation, "I'm too lazy to make my own custom preset, so you must cater to my needs or I'm going to take my whining elsewhere."

See ya! :mrgreen:
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s55
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Re: [Rejected] Presets for Target Size

Post by s55 »

I did like Handbrake and just came here to find out why it won't save MP3 in the presets
If it's not working, post a Proper Bug Report

That audio encoder is saved in the presets.
dynaflash
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Re: [Rejected] Presets for Target Size

Post by dynaflash »

mp3 works here in a saved custom preset.
dynaflash
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Re: [Rejected] Presets for Target Size

Post by dynaflash »

Bullfrog wrote: Perhaps your next car won't have a brake, because "I" don't use one, it's bad practice and wasteful of energy. Or your next computer won't have programs that "I" find unnecessary because "I" don't use them.
Well, I suppose if "you" made the car and gave it to me for free, and I did not like that you decided not to provide a brake cause you didn't want to provide one. I would always have the option of not using the car. Heck I suppose I could always return the car to you and demand my money back ... except I did not pay for it. Otoh, you could always offer for me to with two clicks install the brake at not cost to me. That might be good too. Lol. Sorry just couldn't resist. :)
Bullfrog
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Re: [Rejected] Presets for Target Size

Post by Bullfrog »

It's not an issue with the presets; those are relatively straightforward and easy to set up; but if I want a movie to fit on a CD, a simple way, regardless of whether it's the "best", is to just be able to define the output size, as long as I'm willing to accept whatever quality that produces. The earlier post mentioned removing that feature because it wasn't deemed suitable. So instead of someone just putting in 700MB or whatever, they now have to find a way to calculate all the settings needed to produce the file. You may have these tools all handy, or perhaps even know them instinctively because that's what you do, but software is generally written for people who may not know all that. I don't have any easy way to figure out what settings to put in to produce a file size I need, and I was happy to find the target size option (and judging from responses, others are too). I made several presets for different needs, most using that option, because I didn't want to end up with unexpected file sizes...and that does happen.

If you want more relevant analogies, I work in digital camera design, and having been a photog for a lot of years, don't really need a lot of the stuff that's there. The iA modes on some of our cameras are outstanding in sensing the scene and making appropriate adjustments, but I don't need it. I know f/stops and shutter speeds, exposure compensation needs, etc, so maybe we should just remove the iA mode, because it's not the way to get photos that suit me. Expensive, cheap, or free, it doesn't matter, that would be a stupid decision, because not everyone wants to set their camera manually and carry an eposure meter because I removed all the stuff I didn't like.

If you had something built into Handbrake that would give approximate file sizes for settings chosen, that would be perhaps more reason to remove the target size choice, if it really bothers you. But there's nothing other than to have it run the whole movie, then look at what you got...and if you get a 4GB file that you wanted to put on a CD, you still have no point of reference as to how much to tweak the settings to get what you want.

So maybe the 'target size' option is a bonehead choice for only the vast unwashed, but if they're happy with it, what's the point of removing it? If I didn't like Handbrake or think it was a nicely made program that I appreciate, I wouldn't have even bothered with the first response, but it seemed an odd thing to do, whether you have the "right" to do it or not.

Anyway, I ran across this thread from a search to find if my question had already been answered. I'll post the mp3 question in a more appropriate post, but it's simply that if I save a preset with MP3 chosen (Win7, latest Handbrake), when I choose that preset again, aac is back there, and I don't want aac. I've resaved it, deleted and replaced it with MP3 as the codec, no dice, still insists on aac and I have to manually change it each time I restart HB.
TedJ
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Re: [Rejected] Presets for Target Size

Post by TedJ »

While it has been "casually discussed", removing target filesize hasn't amounted to anything because unlike xvid and avi, it doesn't make the developers life any more difficult leaving it in there.

We discourage the use of target filesize and by extension average bitrate for most applications as a generally Bad Idea™, but they do have their uses. We won't be adding presets targeting these rate control methods.
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