The beginning of the end???

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stephenthomas0
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The beginning of the end???

Post by stephenthomas0 »

Saw this on the apple insider site:-

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07 ... world.html

Think it might be the beginning of the end of handbrake... I hope so (no offence) as it'll be so much easier to rip DVDs if we don't have to bugger around with first ripping with mac the ripper and then handbrake and then import into itunes and then get the album art and then blah blah blah... I know this is only Fox so far and it won't change the DVDs that are currently floating around the shops, but it'll hopefully start a trend which has been adopted by the music industry for a while, which will then, hopefully, allow iTunes to circumvent the copy protection and hopefully urge production companies to stop using copy protection.

I'm all for paying for copyrighted content, but why is it one rule for copyrighted music and another for copyrighted films??? It's just plain stupid as far as I'm concerned. The pirates will always find a way to copy a film, no matter what copy protection is used and so the only people who copy protection messes around with is the good honest people who buy the content and want to put it on their computers.

I'm hoping it's time for Apple to push films into the 21st century as it did with music, but I guess we'll see in the new year...

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s55
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Post by s55 »

HandBrake has many uses outside the DVD world ;)

Even so, there is a lot of content out there that's not owned by one of these big studio's so HandBrake won't be going anywhere anytime soon.

baggss
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Post by baggss »

I see no real impact on HB from this except for those to lazy to rip their ow movies.

This comes at a point when the RIAA is suing a guy in Arizona for making MP3 copies of music from a CD he legally owns...

jbrjake
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Post by jbrjake »

Every new movie could come with this and everyone could move to HD-DVD and Blu-Ray and HandBrake would still be a useful app for years. Why? Legacy and fair use. People have invested a decade and thousands of dollars into building a DVD library, and they won't want it to die with the media.

Plus there will be many, many people who will object to the quality of the iTunes copies, the same way many people turn up their noses at the bitrates of iTunes music.

And MPEG-2 is set in stone as a TV broadcast method in the US, for years. It's part of ATSC. HandBrake can read those broadcasts.

And, let's keep in mind, not every Apple rumor is true, and not every rumor that's true is true in its entirety. We're basing everything we know about this on easily-excitable and highly-ignorant tech sector journalists and bloggers who provide no sources or even deep background.

stephenthomas0
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Post by stephenthomas0 »

Bagss, I meant the part of the article where Fox DVDs will allow ripping in iTunes, not the DVD rental part. Anyway, I guess I was being a bit hasty by saying the end is neigh for handbrake, but I still believe having something like this could cause a snowball effect. I can easily use handbrake with no problem, along with the majority of others out there, but if I had never used it before and was given the option of either ripping with iTunes or handbrake, I'd probably choose iTunes out of simplicity.

I guess it's true that this is mere speculation at the moment, but the way apple is, it'll remain that way until apple release the feature in a big spectacle with fireworks, flyers and possibly cheerleaders jumping up and down spelling out the words "Steve Jobs Rules, Ra Ra Ra"

stephenthomas0
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Post by stephenthomas0 »

Also, why has this been moved to the flippin tiki bar? I don't even know what the tiki bar is... sounds like some sort of [Censored] bar. Do I have to wear some sort of grass skirt to post in here or something? Is it in some sort of attempt to smother the fumes of fear that handbrake may become obsolete when iTunes includes DVD ripping???

Also, jbrjake, I was mainly talking about conventions when talking about DVD ripping. If fox allowed DVD ripping then people would get used to it and other production studios would sign up etc... It would get to the point where apple would include anti-anti-ripping algorithms so that encrypted DVDs can be ripped into iTunes. I know this kind of thing can happen because one of my Foo Fighters albums that is copyright protected. It didn't import into early versions of iTunes, but does now with no problems at all...

It's all a matter of time... Film studios know that people can rip their DVDs, even if they are encrypted, it just means how long they are willing to delay the inevitable fact that they either sell their content so that people can use their content in the way that they want to use it, or obstruct the good honest customers and force the pirates to develop even more complex methods of breaking their encryption's...

I know I'm sounding awfully apple-fanboy-ish here, but I think if a company is going to push DVD ripping for the mainstream, it's going to be apple!

rhester
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Post by rhester »

stephenthomas0 wrote:Also, why has this been moved to the flippin tiki bar? I don't even know what the tiki bar is... sounds like some sort of [Censored] bar. Do I have to wear some sort of grass skirt to post in here or something? Is it in some sort of attempt to smother the fumes of fear that handbrake may become obsolete when iTunes includes DVD ripping???
Those of us who work on HandBrake couldn't possibly care less if it's "obsoleted", as long as it continues to be useful to us. When it no longer is, we'll move on to other things. Which part of "open source" said "marketing and commercialism" to you, and which part of "Tiki Bar" suggested "I'm welcome to mouth off and make a public ass of myself"? If you don't like what you see here, get the funk out.
stephenthomas0 wrote:Also, jbrjake, I was mainly talking about conventions when talking about DVD ripping. If fox allowed DVD ripping then people would get used to it and other production studios would sign up etc... It would get to the point where apple would include anti-anti-ripping algorithms so that encrypted DVDs can be ripped into iTunes. I know this kind of thing can happen because one of my Foo Fighters albums that is copyright protected. It didn't import into early versions of iTunes, but does now with no problems at all...
This is complete bunk. Foo Fighters uses a rootkit, but only on Windows. If you ever had trouble importing it into iTunes on a Mac before, that's your problem, but it had nothing whatsoever to do with the disc or its copy protection.
stephenthomas0 wrote:It's all a matter of time... Film studios know that people can rip their DVDs, even if they are encrypted, it just means how long they are willing to delay the inevitable fact that they either sell their content so that people can use their content in the way that they want to use it, or obstruct the good honest customers and force the pirates to develop even more complex methods of breaking their encryption's...
This is something I both agree with and find completely obvious, as the studios have as well...hence the reason they are now somewhat open to ripping (and some even now include iPod-ready versions right on the disc).
stephenthomas0 wrote:I know I'm sounding awfully apple-fanboy-ish here, but I think if a company is going to push DVD ripping for the mainstream, it's going to be apple!
Actually, if anyone, it will be the studios. Apple can't take a [Censored] without their permission.

Rodney

dynaflash
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Post by dynaflash »

stephenthomas0 wrote:Is it in some sort of attempt to smother the fumes of fear that handbrake may become obsolete when iTunes includes DVD ripping???
Yep, your right HB is obsolete. If I were you I'd delete my copy and use iTunes from now on.

baggss
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Post by baggss »

stephenthomas0 wrote:Bagss, I meant the part of the article where Fox DVDs will allow ripping in iTunes, not the DVD rental part.
All the rest of your drivel aside, even that doesn't worry me. Have you ever taken a video file that you have in iTunes and used the "Convert for iPod" feature? It's so slow it's not even funny. Apple would have to seriously upgrade the functionality to make it even reasonably competitive with Handbrake.

And yes, "The Tiki Bar" is for us gays, we are all [Censored] here. You have a problem with that? It was moved because a member of the staff felt like moving it. Don't like it, who cares?

jbrjake
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Post by jbrjake »

stephenthomas0 wrote: Also, jbrjake, I was mainly talking about conventions when talking about DVD ripping. If fox allowed DVD ripping then people would get used to it and other production studios would sign up etc... It would get to the point where apple would include anti-anti-ripping algorithms so that encrypted DVDs can be ripped into iTunes.
Um, no...as all published accounts of the alleged Fox/Apple deal go, it is absolutely nothing like this. Have you even read up on the subject?

Fox is going to be including FairPlay-protected *already-encoded* copies of movies on their DVDs.
Financial Times wrote: Apart from letting people rent online, Apple will also for the first time extend its FairPlay digital rights management system beyond its own products.

A digital file protected by FairPlay will be included in new Fox DVD releases
Fox isn't allowing DVD ripping, they're included locked-down, pre-encoded copies on the DVDs. If the deal is even true, if the reports are even accurate.

How you get from that to a world where Apple willy-nilly circumvents copy protection measures, is a leap in logic I cannot follow.

No matter how you look at it, this does not extend in any way shape or form to the hundreds of thousands of DVDs already on the market, for which consumers, imo, have a fair use to make personal, format-shifted copies.

stephenthomas0
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Post by stephenthomas0 »

[drivel]
Sorry for offending anyone, the part about handbrake becoming obsolete was supposed to be a joke... Also about the tiki bar being a [Censored] bar, sorry, I'm sure it's a bar for both gays and non-gays, it just sounded a bit like a [Censored] bar, like the blue oyster in police academy...

Handbrake is a very fine and useful app and I'm very glad that the talented individuals who choose to work on it do. I wanted to air my over-simplistic views of the future of DVD ripping. I'm sorry for making assumptions based on the music industry and CD ripping, just thought they may have a similar courses, considering they are both copyrighted content and a lot of the same companies both deal with films and music... Obviously I'm wrong, based on the reaction I've had in this forum.

Also, my Foo Fighters album, one by one, does indeed have copy protection on it. I've just dug it out from my collection and there is a chart on the back listing the devices that will play it. There's a big red "-" next to mac, which might explain why it didn't import on an earlier version of iTunes. There is also a link to http://www.bmg-copycontrol.info. I'm sure someone will tell me that this doesn't constitute copy protection for some reason or another, but the way I see it is that apple circumvented the copy protection on this CD so that people can rip into iTunes. I'm sure someone will disagree with me here and call me a retard or something...

Even though you're all probably going to disagree with me here, I believe that what happens with DVD ripping doesn't fully come down to the technology. It comes down to how people want to use technology. That's why I was making the point of trends and people becoming accustomed to using programs in certain ways, i.e ripping DVDs in iTunes. It doesn't matter about the DVDs that are currently on the market, if people want to rip their DVDs and iTunes provides an easy way for people to do that, then I'm sure companies/programs will follow the trend. At the moment I don't think there is enough of a demand, most people think "Well I've got the DVD, what's the point in waiting hours to rip it to my computer?" Believe me, when there's a demand, no matter what encryption/copy protection is being used, there will be someone, be it apple or another, to supply that demand (probably with the growing popularity of portable video devices this demand will grow). Even with Handbrake being as great as it is, I don't believe that it will be the answer, simply because it doesn't deal with encryption. This is not a dig at handbrake and I'm not trying to request features, I know what open source is and I'd dare not suggest something in fear of my I.P being traced and me being lynched by my own shoe laces...
Actually, if anyone, it will be the studios. Apple can't take a [Censored] without their permission.
I'm pretty sure apple would have some sway in the matter, considering they have the majority share of portable music players (probably video players too). Just look at how NBC decided to stop having their shows on iTunes, just proves that apple is not willing to compromise with this sort of thing.

Finally, Baggss, I'm sorry if I upset you, didn't mean to, I'm not a homophobe and I'm sorry if you think I was having a dig at your sexuality. And yes, I have tried the "convert for iPod" feature in iTunes. It is indeed very slow, but so is handbrake. I have not timed either program to see which is faster, but I don't really care, slow is slow.
[/drivel]

rhester
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Post by rhester »

stephenthomas0 wrote:Also, my Foo Fighters album, one by one, does indeed have copy protection on it. I've just dug it out from my collection and there is a chart on the back listing the devices that will play it. There's a big red "-" next to mac, which might explain why it didn't import on an earlier version of iTunes. There is also a link to http://www.bmg-copycontrol.info. I'm sure someone will tell me that this doesn't constitute copy protection for some reason or another, but the way I see it is that apple circumvented the copy protection on this CD so that people can rip into iTunes. I'm sure someone will disagree with me here and call me a retard or something...
I am unaware of any music publisher, BMG included, to have provided an anti-rip rootkit that is Mac-compatible. It is possible that they have done so, though bypassing it is ridiculously simple (you simply disable Autorun on Windows, I'm sure there is an equivalent on the Mac).

It seems incredibly unlikely to me that Apple was given any special permissions to bypass this rootkit, though I suppose anything is possible.

Rodney

royone
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Post by royone »

This week's Foxtrotaddresses the CD/DVD disparity in DRM laws.

:)

baggss
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Post by baggss »

stephenthomas0 wrote:[drivel]
Finally, Baggss, I'm sorry if I upset you, didn't mean to, I'm not a homophobe and I'm sorry if you think I was having a dig at your sexuality. And yes, I have tried the "convert for iPod" feature in iTunes. It is indeed very slow, but so is handbrake. I have not timed either program to see which is faster, but I don't really care, slow is slow.
[/drivel]
Don't worry, no offense taken and I'm not actually [Censored]. I was making a point. BTW, I thought the Police academy reference was funny, I had not thought of that in years, thanks for the laugh. I apologize if I can across as a jerk as well. I have noticed that HB can be slow on some DVDs but it often depends on what settings I use.

lordeagle
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Re: The beginning of the end???

Post by lordeagle »

Handbrake's Open Source right? Now...Mac OS X is based on a *nix platform (FreeBSD? sorry I'm a PC guy... but that's only cos the Macs are too expensive. lol).

Soo the Apple guys brought an awesome platform using Open Source (FreeBSD --> Mac OS X)... what if Apple "took" (i.e used) Handbrake (which rocks to begin with, unlike FreeBSD) and made it even awesomer? Of course they'd make you all handbrake developers sign NDA so you couldn't actually tell us anything about it, and pretend that I'm merely making suppositions here.

*Dreamy* aaaaaaaaaaaaah :-D

Lol. Now you'll also tell me that World Peace would be awesome, but I think we're closer to Apple integrating Handbrake than we will ever be to World Peace ;)

rhester
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Re: The beginning of the end???

Post by rhester »

lordeagle wrote:Now you'll also tell me that World Peace would be awesome, but I think we're closer to Apple integrating Handbrake than we will ever be to World Peace ;)
About the same odds, actually.

Rodney

jbrjake
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Re: The beginning of the end???

Post by jbrjake »

lordeagle wrote:Soo the Apple guys brought an awesome platform using Open Source (FreeBSD --> Mac OS X)... what if Apple "took" (i.e used) Handbrake (which rocks to begin with, unlike FreeBSD) and made it even awesomer?
First off, there's the whole matter of CSS and the DMCA. But let's forget about that for a second. And then there's the whole matter of SJ's ties to Disney. But let's forget about that too, and entertain this fantasy.

I'm sure that if a tiny app like HandBrake has ever entered Steve Jobs' mind -- this requires a stretch of the imagination all on its own -- his only thought has been "This is crap. We could do this so much better than those guys if we wanted to. We could blow them out of the water."

Apple's response would be beautiful, sleek, and slow. Its quality would not be stunning, but it would be quite adequate. There would be a near-total lack of control over the process, but everything would work right, easily, pretty much all the time. It would be entirely based on QuickTime, and quite likely it would be seamlessly integrated into the iTunes behemoth.

Alternatively, they could just release a stripped down copy of Compressor, their pro video encoding suite.

In other words, Apple would not bother using HandBrake's source code, and they would not bother having us sign NDAs, because their interpretation would be a different app from the ground up with no similarity in either process or design. No way would they use open source encoding libraries. I mean, x264 is higher quality, but the QuickTime H.264 encoder is the *QuickTime* H.264 encoder. Not Invented Here and all that.

Not that we'd turn them down if they asked ;P

nightstrm
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Re: The beginning of the end???

Post by nightstrm »

We all know Apple would buy VisualHub instead. :lol:

Here's to a good Macworld keynote tomorrow, but one that will hopefully not brainwash me into ordering anything new as soon as the store comes back online. :mrgreen:

lordeagle
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Re: The beginning of the end???

Post by lordeagle »

nightstrm wrote: Here's to a good Macworld keynote tomorrow, but one that will hopefully not brainwash me into ordering anything new as soon as the store comes back online. :mrgreen:
Cheers :D

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