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Framerate conversion PAL->NTSC-DVD back to PAL/mkv

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derSimon
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Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:54 pm

Framerate conversion PAL->NTSC-DVD back to PAL/mkv

Post by derSimon » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:28 pm

I have a Rip of a concert DVD. The DVD is in NTSC 29.97 fps, apperently interlaced. But likely, as the concert was recorded in switzerland, the original recording is in PAL (I assume 25 fps).
I like to have a good Matroska file of it, using h264 encoder.
I tried deinterlace filter yadif, setting "bob", but the movement in the resulting file (59... fps) seems strange. Checking frame by frame, the original dvd-recording apperently has a iipiip (interlaced, progressiv) pattern (resulting in every 5th and 6th frame being equal in my yadif-bob deinterlaced transcode).
Detelecine -Filter in default seems to do nothing, i get an interlaced picture (29.97 fps) in my transcode.

Any suggestions how to deinterlace the material and get smooth playback (and good quality)?




HandBrake version 1.07


Windows 10




HandBrake 1.0.7 (2017040900) - 64bit
OS: Microsoft Windows NT 10.0.16299.0 - 64bit
CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3470 CPU @ 3.20GHz
Ram: 8124 MB,
GPU Information:
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 - 23.21.13.8859
Screen: 1920x1080
Temp Dir: C:\Users...\AppData\Local\Temp\
Install Dir: C:\Program Files\HandBrake
Data Dir: C:\Users\...\AppData\Roaming\HandBrake Team\HandBrake\1.0.7.0

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BradleyS
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Re: Framerate conversion PAL->NTSC-DVD back to PAL/mkv

Post by BradleyS » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:48 pm

Have you tried the Decomb filter?

derSimon
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Re: Framerate conversion PAL->NTSC-DVD back to PAL/mkv

Post by derSimon » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:06 am

Decomb filter worked ok, using same framerate (29.97) as the DVD. But someone at videohelp-forum (source--materiel identified as probaply 25i or 50p) showed me how it could look using avisynth with qtgmc-filter. Much less artifacts and some more frames (with new temporal information) compared to decomb-filter. At least compared frame by frame, side by side, the improvement is amazing.

Still a lot of work learning how to use these programms, and supposedly very slow encoding.

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BradleyS
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Re: Framerate conversion PAL->NTSC-DVD back to PAL/mkv

Post by BradleyS » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:50 am

The EEDI2 presets are going to be as good as it gets for deinterlacing quality in HandBrake, but they're slower.

derSimon
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Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:54 pm

Re: Framerate conversion PAL->NTSC-DVD back to PAL/mkv

Post by derSimon » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:00 pm

i don't see any quality improvements caompared to yadif/bob with eedi2. Bit I'm missing more frames. But with yadif/bob, there is still the Problem with every 5th and 6th frame being equal.
I tried Staxrip with IVTC-filter, operation TDecimate (mode=2, rate=50). Its better, but i still get a repeating frame like every 5 seconds.

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BradleyS
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Re: Framerate conversion PAL->NTSC-DVD back to PAL/mkv

Post by BradleyS » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:24 pm

Yeah, you need a decimate filter to really get that right. Try the nightly build if you get a chance, a few things have been tweaked and I’d like to know if it helps. We’re close to HandBrake 1.1.0 and it’s quite stable.

derSimon
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Re: Framerate conversion PAL->NTSC-DVD back to PAL/mkv

Post by derSimon » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:24 pm

I tried the nightly build, but don't know how it could help.

After many hours and several tries with "TDecimate" filter (using staxrip) to get rid of dublicate frames, it seems better I just double the framerate while deinterlacing and leave it like that.

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JohnAStebbins
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Re: Framerate conversion PAL->NTSC-DVD back to PAL/mkv

Post by JohnAStebbins » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:09 pm

What output framerate are you using in HandBrake? HandBrake has a smart decimator that may help if you set a constant output framerate. When converting to CFR, HandBrake will preferentially drop duplicate frames when it decides that it must drop a frame in order to match the requested framerate.

So there are 2 experiments you might want to try. First, try decomb *without* bob and 25fps constant framerate. Second try decomb *with* bob and 50fps constant framerate. One or both of those experiments may eliminate the duplicate frames.

derSimon
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Re: Framerate conversion PAL->NTSC-DVD back to PAL/mkv

Post by derSimon » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:47 pm

Intresting. The nightly build (but not 1.07) seems to work quite good, set to 50 fps and yadif/bob. I tried several framerates, but mostly 50 fps, as this is propably the original framerate (or 25i).

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JohnAStebbins
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Re: Framerate conversion PAL->NTSC-DVD back to PAL/mkv

Post by JohnAStebbins » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:50 pm

Heh, it's been so long since we've had a release, I forgot that this wasn't added till after 1.0.x was released. So as you observed, it's only in the nightly builds.

derSimon
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Re: Framerate conversion PAL->NTSC-DVD back to PAL/mkv

Post by derSimon » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:50 pm

Thanks for the help. Will be using the nightly build with yafif/bob and set to constant 50fps now. It seems there are still some repeated frames, but very few in scenes with almost no motion.

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BradleyS
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Re: Framerate conversion PAL->NTSC-DVD back to PAL/mkv

Post by BradleyS » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:27 pm

Great to hear. I knew this was somehow improved in the nightly but I wasn't sure the details, so I'm glad John could point you in the right direction. :D

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