What's Up with Encoding Old Classic Movies = REALLY Big

[Barry D.]

Please detail your question or problem in as much detail as possible:

I am curious about why an old classic movie (Road to Zanzabar 1941 1hr 32min) should be nearly twice as big as a newer movie running over 2 hrs. using the same profile for each encode. This is happening to the 1st 5 old classic (1930-1940) movies that I have encoded

Tell us about your environment. What version of HandBrake? What version of Windows are you running. etc.

Win7 and latest release of HB as of this post.

If there was any exception or error displayed, please copy it and paste it here:

None

Please include the scan or encode log:

http://pastebin.com/xa8wNpBB

Code: Select all

 Paste a log of the scan or encode between these code brackets, or use a pastebin website and provide us with the URL it gives you. 
 Logs are required for all support requests.

Thanks for any useful info.

[Deleted User 13735]

Source is probably grainy.

[JohnAStebbins]

Use a denoise filter. If you have the time, nlmeans is excellent, but slow.

[nhyone]

One comment on your settings. I would resize it to 640x480 instead of storing it at 720x480 and displaying it at 640x480.

I notice very few B frames are used (and they are quite large, compared to P frames). You can use the veryslow preset or increase it yourself (--bframes).

[Deleted User 13735]

I notice very few B frames are used (and they are quite large, compared to P frames).

What?
I'm not making any sense from that.

[nhyone]

Code: Select all

x264 [info]: frame I:987   Avg QP:16.87  size: 56890
x264 [info]: frame P:64727 Avg QP:20.24  size: 33470
x264 [info]: frame B:66206 Avg QP:22.84  size: 15891
x264 [info]: consecutive B-frames:  4.6% 81.7% 10.9%  2.7%

What I should have said is, there is something about the video that impedes x264 from using many small B frames, and that hurts compressibility.

I wanted the poster to try more B-frames, but now that I think about it, that is just wasted effort. x264 chose to encode only 1 consecutive B-frame most of the time (of the allowed 3).

I usually expect a lot more B frames than P frames (2-3x), and the size to be 60% or less than a P frame. But that only happens for clean sources.

[Deleted User 11865]

You should try b-adapt=2 before you try and increase the max. number of consecutive B-frames anyway

[Deleted User 13735]

Methinks if the OP would post a couple of screenshots from his 1941 film transfer source, we would discover that the theoretical number of consecutive b- frames is not at the root of his file size issue.

[Deleted User 11865]

Methinks if the OP would post a couple of screenshots from his 1941 film transfer source, we would discover that the theoretical number of consecutive b- frames is not at the root of his file size issue.

Probably. But my comment is still valid

[Deleted User 13735]

I still assume it is.

[Barry D.]

Methinks if the OP would post a couple of screenshots from his 1941 film transfer source, we would discover that the theoretical number of consecutive b- frames is not at the root of his file size issue.

How would you like to see the screen shots? I have never done a screen shot from a DVD...or an MKV but I am willing.

I just did another, Road To Bali (1952), and it is over 3GB for a 4:3 stereo 91 minute movie. My typical 90 minute movies usually run about 1.1-1.4GB.

Thanks to all for your responses and help.

[Woodstock]

If you use VLC to play the DVD, you can pause it and do a screen capture (Video->Take Snapshot) of the "raw" video. Other players usually have something similar.

[Barry D.]

Use a denoise filter. If you have the time, nlmeans is excellent, but slow.

Wow, that cut it down from >3Gb to 2.3GB.

I don't care about slow, but I do care about quality and size and finding the right balance.

[Barry D.]

Methinks if the OP would post a couple of screenshots from his 1941 film transfer source, we would discover that the theoretical number of consecutive b- frames is not at the root of his file size issue.

Using VLC Snap, I created 3 snapshots but I can't get Pastebin to accept them. How should I transfer them so someone could take a look?

[Barry D.]

Use a denoise filter. If you have the time, nlmeans is excellent, but slow.

Is 'nlmeans' something that I can add to my encode profile for all movies without effecting quality?

[mduell]

No.

[Barry D.]

No.

So it should only be used for the older movies that show a dramatic increase in typical size? Thanks, I'll eventually get this.

[Woodstock]

It's more of a "case by case basis". Some video deliberately uses grain as part of the effect - one series I own uses very grainy sections to depict "memory" or "dream" sequences. To remove the noise from those would diminish an aspect of the series.

If you are not trying to correct for a "bad transfer" from film to video, it isn't worth the CPU resources to remove the noise.

[jkauff]

I encode a lot of old movies, too. I like to preserve the grain so I use the x264 "Grain" tuning. The resulting file is twice the size, but I have plenty of drive space and the movie looks great. To my eyes, denoiseing really messes with the original cinematography.

[fadral0099]

Thanks