AC3 5.1 to AAC 5.1 - loose athmospheric sounds?

[zebswe]

Hi everyone,

Due to licencing issues for AC3 (on Android, but who knows where else they might occur in the future), I've started converting some mobile movies from AC3 5.1 to AAC.

If I go from 448kbps AC3 5.1 to like 160kbps AAC stereo, it sounds about just as good.
Except for very quiet athmospheric sounds, like winds blowing and such, softer sounds.
I thought it was either from me remixing to stereo, or going to lower bitrate, but I get the exact same effect (and same quality, in my ears at least), by choosing 448kbps AAC 5.1.
Using AAC (FDK) since that was supposed to give better quality.

Whats this all about?
Am I doing something wrong, or do you always loose sounds and get a totally different feeling in the audio tracks when recoding?
Anyone?

Thanks

[zebswe]

The feeling I get after some quick testing is that its remixed in some way!
Overall sound can be same volume/quality, but speech might sometimes sound louder in AAC recode, and some of these kind of athmospheric sounds can be like almost all gone.
Not like a degradation thing, but more like a remix-issue ... 5.1 -> stereo or 5.1 -> 5.1, both same thing.
AC3 to AAC.

EDIT: Maybe I should clarify that all my setups are STEREO. Two speakers, or just headphones!

[zebswe]

In one movie now, a loud clear pooring river sounds great in AC3 5.1, but at AAC 160kbps stereo its like half the volume, on that specific sound. Many other parts sound about the same as far as I can tell in my headphones.

EDIT: Trying avcodec instead doesn't make any difference at all.

[JohnAStebbins]

And still no activity log

[zebswe]

Oh, how stupid of me
Maybe now, with this huge log of the settings I've already described, someone might tell me if its normal to get a different sound mixdown when listening with 2 channels, when going from AC3 5.1 to: AAC Stereo, or AAC Prologic II, or AAC 5.1, at all kinds of bitrates, and trying both avcodec and FDK ...
Lets hope so at least.
I can't be the only one who listens carefully with headphones at different parts of a movie after a recode, to check if it sounds the same?

This is just one of all settings I've tried, and all end up sounding exactly the same (in my stereo setup).
That is, AAC sounds good, but the mix seems to be altered since some sounds (wind blowing, pouring water and such) are way lower in volume.
All I haven't tried is HE-AAC but I really don't think that should do the trick ...
Don't care about video settings here, I'm just after audio recode and then mux into old container with original video.

HandBrake 0.10.0.6534 - 64bit Version
OS: Microsoft Windows NT 6.2.9200.0 - 64bit
CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4570S CPU @ 2.90GHz
Ram: 8068 MB,
GPU Information:
Intel(R) HD Graphics 4600 - 10.18.10.3907
Screen: 1920x1080
Temp Dir: C:\Users\SR\AppData\Local\Temp\
Install Dir: C:\Program Files\Handbrake
Data Dir: C:\Users\SR\AppData\Roaming\HandBrake\HandBrake\0.10.0.6534

-------------------------------------------
CLI Query: -i "D:\Incoming\Planet.Earth.Ep10.Seasonal.Forests.(2006).720p.x264.mkv" -t 1 --angle 1 -c 1 -o "D:\Incoming\Planet.earth.ep10.seasonal.forests.(2006).720p.x264-1.mkv" -f mkv -w 1280 --crop 0:0:0:0 --loose-anamorphic --modulus 2 -e x264 -q 20 --cfr -a 2 -E fdk_aac -6 stereo -R Auto -B 192 -D 0 --gain 0 --audio-fallback ac3 --encoder-preset=veryfast --encoder-level="4.0" --encoder-profile=main --verbose=1

[23:17:32] hb_init: starting libhb thread
HandBrake 0.10.0 (2014112200) - MinGW x86_64 - https://handbrake.fr
4 CPUs detected
Opening D:\Incoming\Planet.Earth.Ep10.Seasonal.Forests.(2006).720p.x264.mkv...
[23:17:32] CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4570S CPU @ 2.90GHz
[23:17:32] - Intel microarchitecture Haswell
[23:17:32] - logical processor count: 4
[23:17:32] OpenCL device #1: Intel(R) Corporation Intel(R) HD Graphics 4600
[23:17:32] - OpenCL version: 1.2
[23:17:32] - driver version: 10.18.10.3907
[23:17:32] - device type: GPU
[23:17:32] - supported: YES
[23:17:32] Intel Quick Sync Video support: yes
[23:17:32] - Intel Media SDK hardware: API 1.10 (minimum: 1.3)
[23:17:32] - H.264 encoder: yes
[23:17:32] - preferred implementation: hardware (any)
[23:17:32] - H.265 encoder: no
[23:17:32] hb_scan: path=D:\Incoming\Planet.Earth.Ep10.Seasonal.Forests.(2006).720p.x264.mkv, title_index=1
libbluray/bdnav/index_parse.c:162: indx_parse(): error opening D:\Incoming\Planet.Earth.Ep10.Seasonal.Forests.(2006).720p.x264.mkv/BDMV/index.bdmv
libbluray/bdnav/index_parse.c:162: indx_parse(): error opening D:\Incoming\Planet.Earth.Ep10.Seasonal.Forests.(2006).720p.x264.mkv/BDMV/BACKUP/index.bdmv
libbluray/bluray.c:2182: nav_get_title_list(D:\Incoming\Planet.Earth.Ep10.Seasonal.Forests.(2006).720p.x264.mkv) failed
[23:17:32] bd: not a bd - trying as a stream/file instead
libdvdnav: Using dvdnav version 5.0.1
libdvdread: Encrypted DVD support unavailable.
libdvdread:DVDOpenFileUDF:UDFFindFile /VIDEO_TS/VIDEO_TS.IFO failed
libdvdread:DVDOpenFileUDF:UDFFindFile /VIDEO_TS/VIDEO_TS.BUP failed
libdvdread: Can't open file VIDEO_TS.IFO.
libdvdnav: vm: failed to read VIDEO_TS.IFO
[23:17:32] dvd: not a dvd - trying as a stream/file instead
Input #0, matroska,webm, from 'D:\Incoming\Planet.Earth.Ep10.Seasonal.Forests.(2006).720p.x264.mkv':
Duration: 00:51:28.74, start: 0.000000, bitrate: N/A
Stream #0.0(eng): Video: h264 (Main), yuv420p, 1280x720 [PAR 1:1 DAR 16:9], 23.98 fps, 1k tbn, 47.95 tbc (default)
Metadata:
_STATISTICS_WRITING_APP: mkvmerge v7.2.0 ('On Every Street') 32bit built on Sep 13 2014 15:42:11
_STATISTICS_WRITING_APP-eng: mkvmerge v7.2.0 ('On Every Street') 32bit built on Sep 13 2014 15:42:11
_STATISTICS_WRITING_DATE_UTC: 2014-11-26 20:32:56
_STATISTICS_WRITING_DATE_UTC-eng: 2014-11-26 20:32:56
_STATISTICS_TAGS: BPS DURATION NUMBER_OF_FRAMES NUMBER_OF_BYTES
_STATISTICS_TAGS-eng: BPS DURATION NUMBER_OF_FRAMES NUMBER_OF_BYTES
BPS : 3506105
BPS-eng : 3506105
DURATION : 00:51:12.402000000
DURATION-eng : 00:51:12.402000000
NUMBER_OF_FRAMES: 73664
NUMBER_OF_FRAMES-eng: 73664
NUMBER_OF_BYTES : 1346520803
NUMBER_OF_BYTES-eng: 1346520803
Stream #0.1(eng): Audio: aac, 48000 Hz, stereo, fltp (default)
Metadata:
title : AAC 192kbps Stereo
_STATISTICS_WRITING_APP: mkvmerge v7.2.0 ('On Every Street') 32bit built on Sep 13 2014 15:42:11
_STATISTICS_WRITING_APP-eng: mkvmerge v7.2.0 ('On Every Street') 32bit built on Sep 13 2014 15:42:11
_STATISTICS_WRITING_DATE_UTC: 2014-11-26 20:32:56
_STATISTICS_WRITING_DATE_UTC-eng: 2014-11-26 20:32:56
_STATISTICS_TAGS: BPS DURATION NUMBER_OF_FRAMES NUMBER_OF_BYTES
_STATISTICS_TAGS-eng: BPS DURATION NUMBER_OF_FRAMES NUMBER_OF_BYTES
BPS : 192000
BPS-eng : 192000
DURATION : 00:51:28.703000000
DURATION-eng : 00:51:28.703000000
NUMBER_OF_FRAMES: 144783
NUMBER_OF_FRAMES-eng: 144783
NUMBER_OF_BYTES : 74128965
NUMBER_OF_BYTES-eng: 74128965
Stream #0.2(eng): Audio: ac3, 48000 Hz, 5.1, fltp, 448 kb/s
Metadata:
title : AC3 original 5.1
_STATISTICS_WRITING_APP: mkvmerge v7.2.0 ('On Every Street') 32bit built on Sep 13 2014 15:42:11
_STATISTICS_WRITING_APP-eng: mkvmerge v7.2.0 ('On Every Street') 32bit built on Sep 13 2014 15:42:11
_STATISTICS_WRITING_DATE_UTC: 2014-11-26 20:32:56
_STATISTICS_WRITING_DATE_UTC-eng: 2014-11-26 20:32:56
_STATISTICS_TAGS: BPS DURATION NUMBER_OF_FRAMES NUMBER_OF_BYTES
_STATISTICS_TAGS-eng: BPS DURATION NUMBER_OF_FRAMES NUMBER_OF_BYTES
BPS : 448000
BPS-eng : 448000
DURATION : 00:51:28.704000000
DURATION-eng : 00:51:28.704000000
NUMBER_OF_FRAMES: 96522
NUMBER_OF_FRAMES-eng: 96522
NUMBER_OF_BYTES : 172967424
NUMBER_OF_BYTES-eng: 172967424
Stream #0.3(swe): Subtitle: [0][0][0][0] / 0x0000 (default)
Metadata:
_STATISTICS_WRITING_APP: mkvmerge v7.2.0 ('On Every Street') 32bit built on Sep 13 2014 15:42:11
_STATISTICS_WRITING_APP-eng: mkvmerge v7.2.0 ('On Every Street') 32bit built on Sep 13 2014 15:42:11
_STATISTICS_WRITING_DATE_UTC: 2014-11-26 20:32:56
_STATISTICS_WRITING_DATE_UTC-eng: 2014-11-26 20:32:56
_STATISTICS_TAGS: BPS DURATION NUMBER_OF_FRAMES NUMBER_OF_BYTES
_STATISTICS_TAGS-eng: BPS DURATION NUMBER_OF_FRAMES NUMBER_OF_BYTES
BPS : 38
BPS-eng : 38
DURATION : 00:49:32.604000000
DURATION-eng : 00:49:32.604000000
NUMBER_OF_FRAMES: 267
NUMBER_OF_FRAMES-eng: 267
NUMBER_OF_BYTES : 14461
NUMBER_OF_BYTES-eng: 14461
[23:17:32] scan: decoding previews for title 1
[23:17:32] scan: audio 0x2: ac3, rate=48000Hz, bitrate=448000 English (AC3) (5.1 ch)
[23:17:32] scan: audio 0x1: aac, rate=48000Hz, bitrate=1 English (AAC) (2.0 ch)
Scanning title 1 of 1, preview 8, 80.00 %[23:17:32] scan: 10 previews, 1280x720, 23.976 fps, autocrop = 0/0/0/0, aspect 16:9, PAR 1:1
[23:17:32] libhb: scan thread found 1 valid title(s)
+ title 1:
+ stream: D:\Incoming\Planet.Earth.Ep10.Seasonal.Forests.(2006).720p.x264.mkv
+ duration: 00:51:28
+ size: 1280x720, pixel aspect: 1/1, display aspect: 1.78, 23.976 fps
+ autocrop: 0/0/0/0
+ support opencl: yes
+ support hwd: yes
+ chapters:
+ 1: cells 0->0, 0 blocks, duration 00:51:28
+ audio tracks:
+ 1, English (AAC) (2.0 ch) (iso639-2: eng)
+ 2, English (AC3) (5.1 ch) (iso639-2: eng), 48000Hz, 448000bps
+ subtitle tracks:
+ 1, Swedish (iso639-2: swe) (Text)(UTF-8)
[23:17:33] 1 job(s) to process
[23:17:33] starting job
[23:17:33] sync: expecting 74055 video frames
[23:17:33] job configuration:
[23:17:33] * source
[23:17:33] + D:\Incoming\Planet.Earth.Ep10.Seasonal.Forests.(2006).720p.x264.mkv
[23:17:33] + title 1, chapter(s) 1 to 1
[23:17:33] + container: matroska,webm
[23:17:33] * destination
[23:17:33] + D:\Incoming\Planet.earth.ep10.seasonal.forests.(2006).720p.x264-1.mkv
[23:17:33] + container: Matroska (libavformat)
[23:17:33] * video track
[23:17:33] + decoder: h264
[23:17:33] + filters
[23:17:33] + Framerate Shaper (1:27000000:1126125)
[23:17:33] + frame rate: 23.976 fps -> constant 23.976 fps
[23:17:33] + Crop and Scale (1280:720:0:0:0:0)
[23:17:33] + source: 1280 * 720, crop (0/0/0/0): 1280 * 720, scale: 1280 * 720
[23:17:33] + loose anamorphic
[23:17:33] + storage dimensions: 1280 * 720, mod 2
[23:17:33] + pixel aspect ratio: 1 / 1
[23:17:33] + display dimensions: 1280 * 720
[23:17:33] + encoder: H.264 (libx264)
[23:17:33] + preset: veryfast
[23:17:33] + profile: main
[23:17:33] + level: 4.0
[23:17:33] + quality: 20.00 (RF)
[23:17:33] * audio track 1
[23:17:33] + decoder: English (AC3) (5.1 ch) (track 2, id 0x2)
[23:17:33] + bitrate: 448 kbps, samplerate: 48000 Hz
[23:17:33] + mixdown: Stereo
[23:17:33] + dither: triangular
[23:17:33] + encoder: AAC (libfdk_aac)
[23:17:33] + bitrate: 192 kbps, samplerate: 48000 Hz
[23:17:33] reader: first SCR 0 id 0x0 DTS 0
[23:17:33] encx264: min-keyint: 24, keyint: 240
[23:17:33] encx264: encoding at constant RF 20.000000
[23:17:33] encx264: unparsed options: level=4.0:ref=1:8x8dct=0:weightp=1:subme=2:mixed-refs=0:trellis=0:vbv-bufsize=25000:vbv-maxrate=20000:rc-lookahead=10
x264 [info]: using SAR=1/1
x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX2 SSE2Fast SSSE3 SSE4.2 AVX AVX2 FMA3 LZCNT BMI2
x264 [info]: profile Main, level 4.0
[23:28:43] reader: done. 1 scr changes
[23:28:43] work: average encoding speed for job is 109.897682 fps
[23:28:43] sync: got 73664 frames, 74055 expected
[23:28:43] render: 73664 frames output, 0 dropped and 0 duped for CFR/PFR
[23:28:43] render: lost time: 0 (0 frames)
[23:28:43] render: gained time: 0 (0 frames) (0 not accounted for)
[23:28:43] h264-decoder done: 73664 frames, 0 decoder errors, 0 drops
x264 [info]: frame I:730 Avg QP:17.23 size:104828
x264 [info]: frame P:33071 Avg QP:20.55 size: 28045
x264 [info]: frame B:39863 Avg QP:22.43 size: 5967
x264 [info]: consecutive B-frames: 12.6% 41.0% 14.2% 32.2%
x264 [info]: mb I I16..4: 21.0% 0.0% 79.0%
x264 [info]: mb P I16..4: 9.7% 0.0% 3.5% P16..4: 39.6% 20.5% 15.4% 0.0% 0.0% skip:11.3%
x264 [info]: mb B I16..4: 1.9% 0.0% 0.3% B16..8: 19.0% 7.1% 1.3% direct:11.4% skip:59.0% L0:32.3% L1:47.5% BI:20.2%
x264 [info]: coded y,uvDC,uvAC intra: 35.4% 68.8% 18.6% inter: 20.2% 25.1% 1.1%
x264 [info]: i16 v,h,dc,p: 42% 26% 22% 10%
x264 [info]: i4 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 22% 22% 19% 6% 7% 6% 7% 5% 5%
x264 [info]: i8c dc,h,v,p: 55% 22% 19% 4%
x264 [info]: Weighted P-Frames: Y:3.7% UV:1.3%
x264 [info]: kb/s:3233.60
[23:28:43] ac3-decoder done: 0 frames, 0 decoder errors, 0 drops
[23:28:43] mux: track 0, 73664 frames, 1241838804 bytes, 3216.50 kbps, fifo 2048
[23:28:43] mux: track 1, 144783 frames, 74128965 bytes, 192.00 kbps, fifo 4096
[23:28:43] libhb: work result = 0
Encode done!
HandBrake has exited.

[Deleted User 13735]

It's your Android version.
All of my movies on my device have passed-through AC3.
MX Player sounds great.
Convert to AAC for YouTube and iThingies. FDK is best for now.

[zebswe]

It's your Android version.
All of my movies on my device have passed-through AC3.
MX Player sounds great.
Convert to AAC for YouTube and iThingies. FDK is best for now.

No no no, I try these in VLC on Windows when I hear this change in sound mix, which I think is the best way to describe what happens going from AC3 5.1 to any AAC in any way.

Update your MX Player on Android and you will see AC3 codec is gone, as in almost all players on Android, due to licence issues.

[TedJ]

Code: Select all

D:\Incoming\Planet.Earth.Ep10.Seasonal.Forests.(2006).720p.x264.mkv, title_index=1

Speaking of license issues... Rule #3 violation, thread locked.