Does DTS-HD passthru work ?

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simonmcnair
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:46 am

Does DTS-HD passthru work ?

Post by simonmcnair » Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:11 am

Hi,
I just encoded a Blu-ray with 3 audio streams:
1.) Source English (DTS) (5.1), AAC(faac),Dolby Pro Logic II
2.) Source English (DTS) (5.1), DTS Passthru, None
3.) Source English (DTS-HD MA) (5.1), DTS-HD Passthru

When I look in VLC codec details I see:
Stream 1: Audio. MPEG AAC Audio (mp4a),English,Stereo,48000Hz
Stream 2: Audio. MPEG AAC Audio (mp4a),English,Stereo,6 Channels, 48000Hz,
16bits, 4608 kb/s
Stream 3: Audio. MPEG AAC Audio (mp4a),English,Stereo,6 Channels, 48000Hz,
16bits, 4608 kb/s

Surely DTS-HD should have a much higher bitrate if nothing else ?

Clarification from a guru please ?

Simon

Code: Select all

HandBrake 0.9.6 2012022800
OS: Microsoft Windows NT 6.1.7601 Service Pack 1
CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU         920  @ 2.67GHz
Ram: 6135 MB, Screen: 2560x1600
Temp Dir: C:\Users\Simon\AppData\Local\Temp\
Install Dir: C:\Program Files\Handbrake
Data Dir: C:\Users\Simon\AppData\Roaming\HandBrake\HandBrake\0.9.6.4466

-------------------------------------------

CLI Query:  -i L:\ -t 1 -c 1-12 -o "D:\111.m4v"  -f mp4 -4  --detelecine --decomb -w 1920 --loose-anamorphic  -e x264 -q 20 --vfr  -a 1,1,2 -E faac,copy:dts,copy:dtshd -B 160,0,0 -6 dpl2,auto,auto -R Auto,Auto,Auto -D 0,0,0 --gain=0,0,0 --audio-copy-mask ac3,dtshd,dts --audio-fallback ffac3 --markers="C:\Users\Simon\AppData\Local\Temp\111-1-chapters.csv" -x b-adapt=2:rc-lookahead=50 --verbose=1
User Query: False

[21:20:33] hb_init: starting libhb thread
HandBrake 0.9.6 (2012022800) - MinGW x86_64 - http://handbrake.fr
8 CPUs detected
Opening L:\...
[21:20:33] hb_scan: path=L:\, title_index=1
[21:20:33] scan: BD has 5 title(s)
[21:20:33] bd: scanning title 1
[21:20:33] bd: playlist 00000.MPLS
[21:20:33] bd: duration is 01:37:28 (5848968 ms)
[21:20:33] bd: video id=0x1011, stream type=H.264, format 1080p
[21:20:33] bd: aspect = 1.77778
[21:20:33] bd: audio id=0x711100, lang=English (DTS), 3cc=eng
[21:20:33] bd: audio id=0x1100, lang=English (DTS-HD MA), 3cc=eng
[21:20:33] bd: chap 1 packet=768, 421963 ms
[21:20:33] bd: chap 2 packet=1678981824, 412745 ms
[21:20:33] bd: chap 3 packet=3362784384, 576075 ms
[21:20:33] bd: chap 4 packet=5698075392, 446737 ms
[21:20:33] bd: chap 5 packet=7514438208, 484275 ms
[21:20:33] bd: chap 6 packet=9487436544, 531239 ms
[21:20:33] bd: chap 7 packet=11628909696, 441899 ms
[21:20:33] bd: chap 8 packet=13390878336, 415081 ms
[21:20:33] bd: chap 9 packet=15131410944, 553135 ms
[21:20:33] bd: chap 10 packet=17404167168, 515139 ms
[21:20:33] bd: chap 11 packet=19516510464, 724390 ms
[21:20:33] bd: chap 12 packet=22443779136, 326284 ms
[21:20:33] bd: title 1 has 12 chapters
[21:20:33] scan: decoding previews for title 1
[21:20:33] scan: title angle(s) 1
[21:20:33] scan: audio 0x711100: DCA, rate=48000Hz, bitrate=768000 English (DTS) (5.1 ch)
[21:20:33] scan: audio 0x1100: dca, rate=48000Hz, bitrate=768000 English (DTS-HD MA) (5.1 ch)
Scanning title 1...
Scanning title 1...
Scanning title 1...
Scanning title 1...
Scanning title 1...
[21:20:34] scan: 10 previews, 1920x1080, 23.976 fps, autocrop = 132/132/0/0, aspect 16:9, PAR 1:1
[21:20:34] stream: 4 good frames, 0 errors (0%)
[21:20:34] scan: title (0) job->width:1920, job->height:816
[21:20:34] libhb: scan thread found 1 valid title(s)
+ title 1:
  + playlist: 00000.MPLS
  + duration: 01:37:28
  + size: 1920x1080, pixel aspect: 1/1, display aspect: 1.78, 23.976 fps
  + autocrop: 132/132/0/0
  + chapters:
    + 1: cells 0->0, 0 blocks, duration 00:07:02
    + 2: cells 0->0, 0 blocks, duration 00:06:53
    + 3: cells 0->0, 0 blocks, duration 00:09:36
    + 4: cells 0->0, 0 blocks, duration 00:07:27
    + 5: cells 0->0, 0 blocks, duration 00:08:04
    + 6: cells 0->0, 0 blocks, duration 00:08:51
    + 7: cells 0->0, 0 blocks, duration 00:07:22
    + 8: cells 0->0, 0 blocks, duration 00:06:55
    + 9: cells 0->0, 0 blocks, duration 00:09:13
    + 10: cells 0->0, 0 blocks, duration 00:08:35
    + 11: cells 0->0, 0 blocks, duration 00:12:04
    + 12: cells 0->0, 0 blocks, duration 00:05:26
  + audio tracks:
    + 1, English (DTS) (5.1 ch) (iso639-2: eng), 48000Hz, 768000bps
    + 2, English (DTS-HD MA) (5.1 ch) (iso639-2: eng)
  + subtitle tracks:
Reading chapter markers from file C:\Users\Simon\AppData\Local\Temp\111-1-chapters.csv
[21:20:34] 1 job(s) to process
[21:20:34] starting job
[21:20:34] sync: expecting 140258 video frames
[21:20:34] job configuration:
[21:20:34]  * source
[21:20:34]    + L:\
[21:20:34]    + title 1, chapter(s) 1 to 12
[21:20:34]  * destination
[21:20:34]    + D:\111.m4v
[21:20:34]    + container: MPEG-4 (.mp4 and .m4v)
[21:20:34]      + 64-bit formatting
[21:20:34]      + chapter markers
[21:20:34]  * video track
[21:20:34]    + decoder: h264
[21:20:34]      + bitrate 200 kbps
[21:20:34]    + frame rate: same as source (around 23.976 fps)
[21:20:34]    + loose anamorphic
[21:20:34]      + storage dimensions: 1920 * 1080 -> 1920 * 816, crop 132/132/0/0, mod 0
[21:20:34]      + pixel aspect ratio: 1 / 1
[21:20:34]      + display dimensions: 1920 * 816
[21:20:34]    + filters
[21:20:34]      + Detelecine (pullup) (default settings)
[21:20:34]      + Decomb (default settings)
[21:20:34]    + encoder: H.264 (x264)
[21:20:34]      + options: b-adapt=2:rc-lookahead=50
[21:20:34]      + quality: 20.00 (RF)
[21:20:34]  * audio track 1
[21:20:34]    + decoder: English (DTS) (5.1 ch) (track 1, id 0x711100)
[21:20:34]      + bitrate: 768 kbps, samplerate: 48000 Hz
[21:20:34]    + mixdown: Dolby Pro Logic II
[21:20:34]    + encoder: AAC (faac)
[21:20:34]      + bitrate: 160 kbps, samplerate: 48000 Hz
[21:20:34]  * audio track 2
[21:20:34]    + decoder: English (DTS) (5.1 ch) (track 1, id 0x711100)
[21:20:34]      + bitrate: 768 kbps, samplerate: 48000 Hz
[21:20:34]    + DTS Passthru
[21:20:34]  * audio track 3
[21:20:34]    + decoder: English (DTS-HD MA) (5.1 ch) (track 2, id 0x1100)
[21:20:34]    + DTS-HD Passthru
[21:20:34] reader: first SCR 377902492 id 0x1011 DTS 377902492
[21:20:34] yadif thread started for segment 0
[21:20:34] yadif thread started for segment 1
[21:20:34] yadif thread started for segment 2
[21:20:34] yadif thread started for segment 4
[21:20:34] yadif thread started for segment 5
[21:20:34] yadif thread started for segment 7
[21:20:34] decomb thread started for segment 0
[21:20:34] decomb thread started for segment 4
[21:20:34] encx264: min-keyint: 24, keyint: 240
[21:20:34] encx264: encoding with stored aspect 1/1
[21:20:34] encx264: Encoding at constant RF 20.000000
x264 [warning]: [21:20:34] decomb thread started for segment 1
--psnr used with psy on: results will be invalid!
[21:20:34] decomb thread started for segment 2
x264 [warning]: --tune psnr should be used if attempting to benchmark psnr!
[21:20:34] decomb thread started for segment 5
x264 [info]: using SAR=1/1
[21:20:34] decomb thread started for segment 7
[21:20:34] yadif thread started for segment 3
[21:20:34] yadif thread started for segment 6
[21:20:34] decomb thread started for segment 3
[21:20:34] decomb thread started for segment 6
x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX2 SSE2Fast SSSE3 FastShuffle SSE4.2
x264 [info]: profile High, level 4.0
Stream with high frequencies VQ coding
[21:20:34] h264: "Chapter 1" (1) at frame 0 time 7508
[21:20:34] sync: audio gap 71 ms. Skipping frames. Audio 0x1100  start 6454, next 0
[21:20:34] sync: first pts is 7508
[21:20:34] sync: video time didn't advance - dropped 1 frames (delta 19 ms, current 2793, next 10301, dur 7508)
[21:20:34] sync: video time didn't advance - dropped 1 frames (delta 19 ms, current 10301, next 17808, dur 7507)
[21:37:23] h264: "Chapter 2" (2) at frame 10116 time 37985937
[21:54:00] h264: "Chapter 3" (3) at frame 20012 time 75133047
[22:15:59] h264: "Chapter 4" (4) at frame 33824 time 126979842
[22:33:16] h264: "Chapter 5" (5) at frame 44535 time 167186258
[22:51:59] h264: "Chapter 6" (6) at frame 56146 time 210771049
[23:12:13] h264: "Chapter 7" (7) at frame 68884 time 258586317
[23:28:57] h264: "Chapter 8" (8) at frame 79477 time 298349790
[23:45:51] h264: "Chapter 9" (9) at frame 89431 time 335714618
[00:07:00] h264: "Chapter 10" (10) at frame 102693 time 385496850
[00:27:11] h264: "Chapter 11" (11) at frame 115042 time 431851909
[00:55:23] h264: "Chapter 12" (12) at frame 132411 time 497050793
[01:05:06] reader: done. 3 scr changes
[01:05:10] work: average encoding speed for job is 10.406736 fps
[01:05:10] sync: got 140233 frames, 140258 expected
[01:05:11] h264-decoder done: 140235 frames, 0 decoder errors, 0 drops
[01:05:11] render: lost time: 330327 (88 frames)
[01:05:11] render: gained time: 330327 (346 frames) (0 not accounted for)
[01:05:11] render: average dropped frame duration: 3753
x264 [info]: frame I:1239  Avg QP:17.60  size:152526  PSNR Mean Y:46.58 U:51.32 V:54.01 Avg:47.79 Global:47.28
x264 [info]: frame P:42744 Avg QP:20.49  size: 42195  PSNR Mean Y:45.04 U:50.38 V:53.12 Avg:46.29 Global:44.85
x264 [info]: frame B:96161 Avg QP:21.87  size: 23259  PSNR Mean Y:43.00 U:48.50 V:51.54 Avg:44.29 Global:43.85
x264 [info]: consecutive B-frames:  3.9%  6.4% 22.5% 67.2%
x264 [info]: mb I  I16..4: 31.5% 39.0% 29.5%
x264 [info]: mb P  I16..4:  6.9%  9.8%  1.5%  P16..4: 44.4% 14.3%  8.8%  0.0%  0.0%    skip:14.2%
x264 [info]: mb B  I16..4:  1.8%  2.1%  0.2%  B16..8: 53.6%  4.5%  0.8%  direct: 7.2%  skip:29.9%  L0:46.8% L1:50.5% BI: 2.7%
x264 [info]: 8x8 transform intra:51.9% inter:63.3%
x264 [info]: coded y,uvDC,uvAC intra: 78.6% 61.4% 19.4% inter: 31.3% 37.5% 1.0%
x264 [info]: i16 v,h,dc,p: 17% 17% 41% 25%
x264 [info]: i8 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 14% 12% 32%  6%  7%  8%  7%  7%  7%
x264 [info]: i4 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 19% 16% 27%  6%  8%  7%  7%  5%  5%
x264 [info]: i8c dc,h,v,p: 56% 21% 19%  4%
x264 [info]: Weighted P-Frames: Y:1.4% UV:0.7%
x264 [info]: ref P L0: 52.1% 12.5% 23.3% 12.0%  0.1%
x264 [info]: ref B L0: 75.6% 19.7%  4.7%
x264 [info]: ref B L1: 90.7%  9.3%
x264 [info]: SSIM Mean Y:0.9621714 (14.222db)
x264 [info]: PSNR Mean Y:43.653 U:49.103 V:52.044 Avg:44.931 Global:44.157 kb/s:5784.58
[01:05:11] dca-decoder done: 0 frames, 0 decoder errors, 0 drops
[01:05:14] mux: track 0, 140144 frames, 4229142790 bytes, 5784.46 kbps, fifo 512
[01:05:14] mux: track 1, 274171 frames, 116966245 bytes, 159.98 kbps, fifo 2048
[01:05:14] mux: track 2, 548341 frames, 561501184 bytes, 768.00 kbps, fifo 4096
[01:05:14] mux: track 3, 548341 frames, 1426095584 bytes, 1950.56 kbps, fifo 4096
[01:05:14] stream: 140235 good frames, 0 errors (0%)
[01:05:14] decomb: deinterlaced 0 | blended 37 | unfiltered 140107 | total 140144
[01:05:14] libhb: work result = 0
Encode done!
HandBrake has exited.

Smithcraft
Veteran User
Posts: 2674
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:04 pm

Re: Does DTS-HD passthru work ?

Post by Smithcraft » Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:28 am

CLI Query: -i L:\ -t 1 -c 1-12 -o "D:\111.m4v" -f mp4 -4 --detelecine --decomb -w 1920 --loose-anamorphic -e x264 -q 20 --vfr -a 1,1,2 -E faac,copy:dts,copy:dtshd -B 160,0,0 -6 dpl2,auto,auto -R Auto,Auto,Auto -D 0,0,0 --gain=0,0,0 --audio-copy-mask ac3,dtshd,dts --audio-fallback ffac3 --markers="C:\Users\Simon\AppData\Local\Temp\111-1-chapters.csv" -x b-adapt=2:rc-lookahead=50 --verbose=1
As far as I know, DTS (and DTS-HD) doesn't play well in the mp4 container, so you need to use the mkv container.

Therefore, I think the problem is that Handbrake is trying to make your selections work by converting the DTS tracks to AAC, which is the fallback behavior.

S "Not a guru" C

simonmcnair
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:46 am

Re: Does DTS-HD passthru work ?

Post by simonmcnair » Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:55 am

Hi Smithcraft,
I've been trying to do all my encodes in mp4 because "the MP4 container, which is both widely compatible and offers many advanced features" and I also saw a patch that enabled DTS/DTS-HD for mp4 at https://reviews.handbrake.fr/r/126/. I would have thought that if it wasn't supported it shouldn't allow you to do it ?

As time passes I like MKV more and more, and MP4 less and less. I also like the mkvtoolnix and makemkv which all seem to point to mkv being better. Why have the Handbrake developers decided to support a patent encumbered container rather than a freely licensed one ?

As an aside wiki says mp4 supports dts http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison ... -codecs-26 as does http://www.mp4ra.org/codecs.html

Thanks for the reply though.

Simon

rollin_eng
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Re: Does DTS-HD passthru work ?

Post by rollin_eng » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:10 pm

simonmcnair wrote:[01:05:14] mux: track 0, 140144 frames, 4229142790 bytes, 5784.46 kbps, fifo 512
[01:05:14] mux: track 1, 274171 frames, 116966245 bytes, 159.98 kbps, fifo 2048
[01:05:14] mux: track 2, 548341 frames, 561501184 bytes, 768.00 kbps, fifo 4096
[01:05:14] mux: track 3, 548341 frames, 1426095584 bytes, 1950.56 kbps, fifo 4096
It looks like they are all there. VLC might not be able to read them correct.

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Rodeo
HandBrake Team
Posts: 11636
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Re: Does DTS-HD passthru work ?

Post by Rodeo » Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:07 pm

Most devices and software don't support DTS in MP4. Use the MKV container.

simonmcnair
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:46 am

Re: Does DTS-HD passthru work ?

Post by simonmcnair » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:18 am

Rollin_eng, thank you that makes sense. It's a shame, but it makes sense.

Rodeo, Would it be worth removing the DTS options for m4v if most devices don't support DTS in m4v ? I'm all for options, but not if they don't really work in real life. As an aside, please can you clarify why m4v is the handbrake preferred format given it's license encumbered, doesn't have cool tools like mkvtools and doesn't support dts ? (please don't say because it's the main apple device format :-() as I'm confused.

cheers
Simon

TedJ
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Re: Does DTS-HD passthru work ?

Post by TedJ » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:39 am

MP4 is an ISO/IEC ratified format with large scale hardware and software support.

simonmcnair
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:46 am

Re: Does DTS-HD passthru work ?

Post by simonmcnair » Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:45 pm

TedJ,
Thank you for the answer. Please don't treat this as trolling .....but...

I'm not sure if that is an answer or shooting open formats/licensing in the foot ? Surely the standard should be 'MKV is open source/license and we recommend you use it' whilst still making the Apple presets use the mp4 extension/format ?

If you were to decide to use something based on it's ISO/IEC format then Linux would never have got off the floor due to lack of initial support.

Has anyone done a poll on what hardware/software Handbrake is used for as I'd love to see it to understand what proportion of users use MKV vs MP4 (my guess would be that XMBC and ipad would be near the top of them).

I'm trying to figure out if DTS is a strong enough reason to go MKV or not as I'd be happy to transcode an ipad only version for the amount of time it would be on there for. I've been doing my blu ray's in MP4 which seems ludicrous since blurays standard is DTS.

So many conflicting and confusing options.

Simon

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Rodeo
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Re: Does DTS-HD passthru work ?

Post by Rodeo » Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:46 pm

simonmcnair wrote:Rodeo, Would it be worth removing the DTS options for m4v if most devices don't support DTS in m4v ? I'm all for options, but not if they don't really work in real life.
I would tend to agree, but we're not taking this away (less special cases makes it easier for us) :P

simonmcnair
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:46 am

Re: Does DTS-HD passthru work ?

Post by simonmcnair » Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:20 pm

How does it make it easier for you if you have numpties like me asking why functionality doesn't work, when it does, but it's unsupported by X % of hardware ?

Surely the easy way of life is to have less options to support rather than more ?

Your point is clearly made though, I'll stick to MKV from now on and re-transcode and films that I've previously done with DTS in to MKV. It's horrid having to use different formats but c'est la vie eh.

thanks for your patience.
Simon

TedJ
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Re: Does DTS-HD passthru work ?

Post by TedJ » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:55 am

simonmcnair wrote:If you were to decide to use something based on it's ISO/IEC format then Linux would never have got off the floor due to lack of initial support.
One could argue that open standards are the reason linux was able to flourish as it did, seeing as it adhered to the IEEE POSIX standards.

MKV is getting there as a format; it's part of the DivX Plus HD standard, which increased it's hardware support on Blu-ray players, set-top boxes and televisions by an order of magnitude... but for the moment, MP4 is more prevalent.

simonmcnair
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:46 am

Re: Does DTS-HD passthru work ?

Post by simonmcnair » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:09 am

TedJ,
I'll grant you that it is always good to support and adhere to standards (especially if Posix was best of breed, you could liken it to MKV rather than M4v ;-)), I don't think that was my point. Open source/license doesn't succeed until it gains enough momentum and establishes a wide user base. By endorsing a license encumbered codec (imho) you're supporting Goliath rather than David. Being Popular doesn't mean you're better than anyone else ;-).

I would also argue that ISO or IEC is optional if the standard is well documented and accepted (any maybe the next step if aforementioned momentum was achieved). There are lots of reasons why MKV may not be an ISO/IEC standard (cost, principle, etc).

Like I said before, your point is made and you can lead a horse to water etc. You (handbrake developers, moderators etc) lot are well focused, determined and unswerving so it'll be interesting to see how the project survives and innovates in the future.

Thanks for discussing it though.
Simon

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