HOWTO:Blu-ray "Forced" Subtitles-Avatar, District 9, etc...

[Deleted User 11865]

Now how to handbrake those files without losing the PGS? or are they still there maybe? Mmm, I'll go check some files and see.

What part of "HandBrake does not support PGS subtitles" did you not understand? It does not see them, it does not look for them, and, surprisingly given what I just said, it does not automagically pass all PGS subtitles through.

[Trevor68]

Nice, all my MAKEMKV files playback using directvobsub just fine. Pity there like 20-25gig files though.

I guess I can use MKVMerge to extract the PGS Stream, BD2sub to convert to IDX, then rumux again with MKVMERGE before applying handbrake?

Just wondering if i have my head around that right?

[Scott R]

I've got a couple of movies I've already ripped (using MakeMKV) and which have the forced subtitles embedded in them. I'd rather not go through the process of ripping them again, and I've read elsewhere that there are tools which I can use to extract the subtitle data from the MKV, so I'm reading up on that now. But before I spend too much time on that, I wanted to post a few questions here:

1) Given my situation, what would be the quickest method for accomplishing the goal of encoding an MKV (with embedded subs) into an .m4v (using Handbrake) with burned-in subs?

2) I believe there are online sources for subtitle files. What are the pros/cons of this and, if it's not against the rules, which sites would you recommend?

3) Handbrake development team: Is the possibility of reading this subtitle data (already embedded in the MKV that MakeMKV created) on your radar at all? If so, any rough ETA?

I'd prefer to minimize the number of steps and tools that I have to use to go from point A (a Blu-ray disc) to point B (an Apple TV capable .m4v file with burned-in subs), and the recent enhancement to Handbrake which added DTS conversion to AC3 was very much appreciated.

[Deleted User 11865]

1) Given my situation, what would be the quickest method for accomplishing the goal of encoding an MKV (with embedded subs) into an .m4v (using Handbrake) with burned-in subs?

Extract the subtitles from MKV, convert the extracted Blu-Ray PGS subtitles to VOBSUB, create a new MKV with the audio/video from the MakeMKV rip and the converted subtitles, feed that new MKV file to HandBrake.

2) I believe there are online sources for subtitle files. What are the pros/cons of this and, if it's not against the rules, which sites would you recommend?

Pro: you can add them directly via HandBrake's subtitle panel without any need to extract then from and/or remux them to MKV.

Con: at this point, HandBrake can't burn-in SRT subtitles.

3) Handbrake development team: Is the possibility of reading this subtitle data (already embedded in the MKV that MakeMKV created) on your radar at all?

Yes. IIRC, j45 started working on it, but it's nowhere near ready.

If so, any rough ETA?

No. Though, AFAICT, probably not in 2010.

[Scott R]

Thanks for the quick reply. Your response to #1 did not provide specifics, but I've been Googling and trying things since I replied last, so here's where I'm at...any additional help would be greatly appreciated:

1) Extract the subtitles from the MKV:
Per this guide, I've installed and used mkvtoolnix. First I use mkvinfo to determine the "track number" of my forced subtitle, then I use mkvextract to actually extract the subtitle data to a .sup file. This takes several minutes (I wasn't keeping track, but I'm guessing about 15 minutes for Avatar with my woefully inadequate AMD 3800+ box).

2) Convert the extracted Blu-ray PGS subtitles to VOBSUB:
Here I've perhaps already diverged from your recommendations because I don't have a PGS file, but rather a .sup file. I'm then attempting to use BDSup2Sub (per the guide I linked to above) to convert the .sup file to a .sub file. But after selecting the .sup file, BDSup2Sub begins reading it and about halfway through, it throws the error "IndexOutOfBoundsException".

Any ideas/suggestions?

[Deleted User 11865]

2) Convert the extracted Blu-ray PGS subtitles to VOBSUB:
Here I've perhaps already diverged from your recommendations because I don't have a PGS file, but rather a .sup file.

No difference. .sup is just an extension, PGS is the actual format.

I'm then attempting to use BDSup2Sub (per the guide I linked to above) to convert the .sup file to a .sub file. But after selecting the .sup file, BDSup2Sub begins reading it and about halfway through, it throws the error "IndexOutOfBoundsException".

Any ideas/suggestions?

See if you can contact the developers of BDSup2Sub for support and/or reporting a bug.

[sovereign]

I think I understand all this but I'm still trying to get my first attempt to work. I've produced quite a number of unplayable movies and have no idea why. Let me ask this for now - what are you playing the resulting MP4 with? The author mentioned Apple TV. The reason I ask is because I'm trying to play my encoded movies in WMC. Depending on which attempt it is, I'll get an MP4 with no sound or one that will play the downmixed stereo sound - never one that will play the AC3. I think I've determined that, even though WMC can play AC3 from a DVD just fine, it doesn't understand the MP4 container or something so it won't play the AC3 when you play an MP4. I hate installing codec packs or other programs, but when it just won't work, I then installed the DivX Plus Codec Pack pursuant to someone's suggestion. This appears to make WMC interpret the MP4s correctly (so that I at least always get sound) but I'm still not getting 5.1. By the way, all my PCs are connected to receivers via SPDIF, so I'm definitely trying the get passthru working. Do I need yet another codec that tells WMC "when you come across a file that has AC3 OR DTS in it, regardless of what else is in there, pass it thru to the receiver?"

[Deleted User 11865]

This topic is not about audio.

[compudude]

Thanks for the guide, Destaas!

My first conversion, Salt, is finishing up soon. Everything seemed to go really well, although there are a whopping SEVEN English subtitle tracks in this movie, making it kinda fun to figure out which one I needed. (hint: there's not a massive amount of foreign language, so I chose the smallest of the files (smallest by far) so I'm pretty confident I got it right)

So far so good. One question, though: My files are destined for playback on my ATV also. Are the ATV Handbrake instructions in your guide intended for a gen 1 ATV or the newer ATV2? I usually just use the ATV profile for max compatibility, but I'm curious to give your settings a try... but I have to feed the file to BOTH ATV1 and ATV2, since I own both, and I'd like to know which your files will run on (or will they run fine on both?).

[compudude]

Quick question: Does something in this process kill chapters? My straight BD-MKV-M4V conversion using MakeMKV and the ATV profile lost subtitles, of course, but I know there were chapters in the movie, because my test conversion of chapter 1 was the one that confirmed I needed to take extra steps to deal with subs. (first BD conversion that I've done that actually needed this treatment)

The MKV that's converting now doesn't have any chapters. Did I do something wrong, or does this simply nuke chapters? (I can probably live without chapters if need be, on the hopefully-few BD movies with subs, but if there's a way to keep them, that's obviously preferable.)

[TedC]

The original OP does not specifically mention chapters in the makemkv portion of the guide - but it is possible (and most likely missed in your (compudude's) process.

In the global tab of the makemkv ui - there's a section called chapters - where you would need to "attach" the chapters file created from clownbd. The chapter editor tab of the makemkv ui is also used - drag and drop the chapters file created from clownbd into the chapters section of the window.

[compudude]

The original OP does not specifically mention chapters in the makemkv portion of the guide - but it is possible (and most likely missed in your (compudude's) process.

In the global tab of the makemkv ui - there's a section called chapters - where you would need to "attach" the chapters file created from clownbd. The chapter editor tab of the makemkv ui is also used - drag and drop the chapters file created from clownbd into the chapters section of the window.

Thanks!

But... the OP's guide does not call for the use of makemkv ... at what point in the process would I use that program? Or is that instead of one of the programs he used?

OP's sequence (which I used to the letter) is:

1. ANYDVD HD (or equivalent Blu-ray ripper)
2. Clown_BD – to mux out your video, audio and subtitle tracks
3. BDSup2Sub – to create a track of just the “forced” subtitles
4. MKVMerge – to wrap this all into a pretty little package HandBrake can use.
5. HandBrake

Can MakeMKV open the file created by MKVmerge and add the Chapters file at that point, just before ripping? I've never used it in such a manner. Or did you mean the Chapter Editor in MKVmerge (as part of Step 4), and not MakeMKV?

[TedC]

Sorry - I interchanged makemkv with mkvmerge... I meant to say mkvmerge.

[compudude]

Ha! Same time posts.

Thanks for the tip! I'll give that a shot. My initial try is already done (and worked out perfectly other than the chapter thing), but it's worth re-ripping this one more time for chapter support.

[MattLx]

Thanks for the How-To, worked brilliantly.

One side note on BDSup2Sub, in the instance of Avatar, as shown in the screencap above, the subtitle colors should be yellow but turned out cyan. I found to resolve this go to settings in BDSup2Sub and select Swap Cr/Cb, then save/export as normal. This will create a reversed color initially but then during handbraking it will revert to the original color.

Is this Swap Cr/Cb a preferred setting or was that situational? If it's not a best practice, how can I consistently preserve the color of the subs? Thanks in advance for any help.

[MattLx]

I can't figure out what I did wrong. And I'm not a complete novice. I extracted the proper .sup and converted it to get the .idx and .sub files. Then I merged everything to get the .mkv. When I test the .mkv I don't see the subs.

When I open the mkv in handbrake, under subs it shows an English(VobSub) in the track dropdown but no corresponding details below. I believe I should instead see a .bmp sub track.

When muxing the .mkv was I supposed to merge the .sub and not the .idx? If not, any ideas where I went wrong.

In MKVMerge I did not choose to force the .idx file. I just didn't think that was important. Maybe that's it?

[MattLx]

As I continue to review my steps; maybe I shouldn't expect to see the forced subs when testing the .mkv. Instead I should let handbrake encode my M4V with the subs and test that resultant file? I'm a little confused in Handbrake... Before clicking Add (to get the subtitle details to show), do I choose the "Foreign audio search (bitmap)" or the VobSub options?

Thanks again for any help. I can see this is an old thread and therefore a dead topic (well understood) for most.

[Lifeisabeach]

I'd been working on a way to get forced subtitles from BD rips burned in on my HandBrake encodes and worked out one that is essentially identical to how the OP here wound up doing it. That workflow was Windows-oriented, so as a Mac user, I thought I'd share the details of my tools and workflow.

1: Load up the Blu-Ray disc in MakeMKV. Locate your track; uncheck the master level Subtitles option, but leave the forced only option checked. Then rip.

2: Extract the subtitle track out of the rip using MKVtools (this option is found under the EDIT tab).

3: Load the extracted .sup file in BDSup2Sub (don't select any of the conversion options initially presented). Once loaded, set the Output Format to SUB/IDX, then Save/Export from the File menu.

4: Using Mkvtoolnix, under Input, add the rip you made from MakeMKV, then add the IDX file. De-select the original subtitle track (should be labeled S_HGMV/PGS, or something similar). Select the VobSub track and under track options, set the language to whatever is appropriate. Then Start Muxing.

5: Once muxing is complete, load up the new file in Handbrake, set your options, and be sure to select your new subtitle track before hitting Start. DO NOT select the Forced option.

A couple notes: this guide was written with the intent that the subtitles get burned in for MP4 compatibility. There's no need to use the "Forced" flag if done this way because only the forced subtitles will get ripped to begin with. Just burn them in as if they weren't forced. If you try to use the "Forced" option in HandBrake, this presumably will fail (unless you happened to enable the "forced" flag while in step 4). If you plan to make an MKV file in the end with HandBrake, but don't want the subs burned in, be sure to set the "Forced" flag for the VobSub track in step 4, and (obviously) not use the "Burned In" option in HandBrake but do use the "Forced Only" option.

This workflow also relies on the latest versions of all these tools. MakeMKV in particular didn't have the option to only extract forced subtitles earlier in its development, iirc.

[Lifeisabeach]

As I continue to review my steps; maybe I shouldn't expect to see the forced subs when testing the .mkv. Instead I should let handbrake encode my M4V with the subs and test that resultant file? I'm a little confused in Handbrake... Before clicking Add (to get the subtitle details to show), do I choose the "Foreign audio search (bitmap)" or the VobSub options?

Thanks again for any help. I can see this is an old thread and therefore a dead topic (well understood) for most.

Hi Matt. Try using the guide I just posted for Mac users, but use the Windows versions of the tools I mentioned (I'm assuming you are using Windows). In place of MKVtools, use Clown_BD as suggested by the OP. If you only want the forced tracks, then extract only those using MakeMKV and DO NOT set the "Forced" flag at any point in the other steps. In HandBrake, select the subtitle track (don't do the "Foreign" search), select "Burned In", and DO NOT select Forced.

[astathedog]

lifesabeach -- interesting, but mkvtools doesn't seem to be able to open anything put out by makemkv: how do you open the backup from makemkv with mkvtools?

[Lifeisabeach]

lifesabeach -- interesting, but mkvtools doesn't seem to be able to open anything put out by makemkv: how do you open the backup from makemkv with mkvtools?

It certainly will open them. I drag/drop up in the text box (you have to register to drag/drop, iirc), but you can also just use the Open button to locate your video the hard way.

Instead of using MKVtools to demux out the subtitle track, you could use iMKVExtract. MKVtools is just drastically easier to use.


EDIT: It won't open DVD rips, I should mention, due to lack of MPEG2 support. Just Blu-Ray rips. But if you are working with a DVD rip, this guide isn't for you in the first place.

[astathedog]

okay i see the problem: first, you have to point mkvtools to the stream itself as if will not hunt thru the file hierarchy to find it. also, mkvtools will open mpeg4/avc encodes but not mpeg-2 encodes. i ripped one of my movies with makemkv and mkvtools will not open it, saying its an unsupported file. mediainfo tells me the file is mpeg-2. i tried another, which i also ripped with makemkv, and mkvtools will open it no problem: that file is avc format. these were both blu-ray rips, and i was surprised the first was mpeg-2 since i though all blu-rays were mpeg-4/264

[Deleted User 11865]

these were both blu-ray rips, and i was surprised the first was mpeg-2 since i though all blu-rays were mpeg-4/264

The Blu-Ray spec allows 3 video formats: MPEG-2, H.264 and VC-1.

[astathedog]

thanks rodeo

so, given that mkvtools will not extract mpeg-2 rips from blu-ray, are there other mac apps that will?

for pc, is clown the only/best option to demux?

[Deleted User 11865]

All right, I haven't been following - at this point you have an MKV file (created by e.g. MakeMKV) and are trying to extract tracks from it? If that's what you need to do, there is always mkvextract (part of Mkvtoolnix). It's a command line app so not the easiest ot use, but it works.