How do I select EEDI2 deinterlacer for videos?

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randomreuben
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How do I select EEDI2 deinterlacer for videos?

Post by randomreuben »

Hello!

I was looking up the results of EEDI2 and they're very impressive. I'd wanted to use that feature, but I don't see where I can select it in the GUI. Please help.

Take care,

Reuben
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Rodeo
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Re: How do I select EEDI2 deinterlacer for videos?

Post by Rodeo »

You need to use a custom decomb string (in Picture Settings, Filters tab - or wherever the Windows equivalent is).

http://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/Decomb#options

The decomb documentation isn't up-to-date for 0.9.4; the main difference is the new mode structure which is described here:

http://trac.handbrake.fr/browser/tags/0 ... b/decomb.c
jbrjake
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Re: How do I select EEDI2 deinterlacer for videos?

Post by jbrjake »

Enter custom parameters for decomb. For the custom parameters, just use 8, 9, or 11. 8 will just be EEDI2, 9 is EEDI2 temporally adjusted by yadif, 11 is like 9 but will blend frames that aren't very combed or are marked as progressive but show significant combing.

Sorry, I'll have the docs updated for decomb in the next few days. EEDI2 has a bunch of optional parameters that will take awhile to explain.
Last edited by Rodeo on Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fix typo
randomreuben
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Re: How do I select EEDI2 deinterlacer for videos?

Post by randomreuben »

Thank you both for the quick response. May I task your patience for a few more questions?

Do you feel that EEDI2 could replace the detelecine and decomb features for NTSC sources? I have a number of PAL sources that show a strange "stop-and-go-and-stop-and-go" playback when used with detelecine and decomb. Will the EEDI2 feature be able to handle PAL sources?

Thank you for all your hard work and I really appreciate the quality program you guys have helped make. Go Handbrake!
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Rodeo
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Re: How do I select EEDI2 deinterlacer for videos?

Post by Rodeo »

EEDI2 is a better (and much slower) alternative to yadif. You can use it in decomb to replace or complement yadif. It's not related to detelecine at all.
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Re: How do I select EEDI2 deinterlacer for videos?

Post by jbrjake »

EEDI2 has nothing to do with detelecining, because in detelecining, you're just taking fields that already exist, and weaving them back in the right progressive order.

EEDI2 is a spatial deinterlacing interpolator. It takes a single frame, throws away other line, and fills them in based on the lines that are left behind. It does a very good job at making sure edges don't appear jagged, because it has a complex and intensive method of locating them and measuring their angles.

Yadif is a deinterlacing filter. It operates spatially and temporally. It makes an initial spatial prediction that's like EEDI2's, but with much cruder edge detection. Then, it uses the previous and next fields of the image (one of which is in a different frame) to adjust the spatial prediction to compensate for motion.

EEDI2's spatial prediction can be plugged into yadif, skipping its internal interpolation, while benefiting from its temporal adjustments.

I would not suggest using EEDI2 as an alternative to yadif, because deinterlacing methods that do not take previous and next frames into account don't look that good in practice.
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Re: How do I select EEDI2 deinterlacer for videos?

Post by Rodeo »

No need to guess which one of us is the expert here :D
randomreuben
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Re: How do I select EEDI2 deinterlacer for videos?

Post by randomreuben »

Dear Rodeo and jbjrake,

Thank you for your time. So if one were to opt for the most thorough decomb method, the option of "9: EEDI2->yadif" would be the best because the encode would benefit from both EEDI2 and yadif's features.

I apologise for bringing up telecine again, but I have been reading the wiki and I didn't find this information there. I have a number of PAL and NTSC sources. When I enable detelecine for NTSC sources, no problem. But when I use it for my PAL sources, there is a jerkiness to the video playback. I read somewhere in the forums that detelecine can be turned off for PAL sources because it isn't necessary for PAL sources.

I tried encoding PAL content with and without the detelecine option and it seems to run much more smoothly without the detelecine option. I did use the decomb filter in both cases. Am I right in this that detelecine is not necessary for PAL sources?

I know you guys are busy with Handbrake and I appreciate your time in replying to my questions. I have been following Handbrake's progress very closely over the last year since I discovered it. It's a wonderful program and I cannot thank you enough for your part in it.

Take care,

Reuben
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Re: How do I select EEDI2 deinterlacer for videos?

Post by jbrjake »

Detelecine *should* handle PAL sources fine. It's stateless and is supposed to be able to invert essentially any telecine pattern that's not missing fields, including the various (and uncommon) PAL telecine techniques, while leaving any sources that don't show a pattern untouched.

I'm in NTSCLand so I don't have much PAL material to test with, and would appreciate short samples of sources the filter fails on.

There's also a parameter in the filter that controls how "strictly" it identifies the telecine pattern. Try setting the detelecine options to: 1:1:4:4:-1 or 1:1:4:4:1 and see how those change the output. Oh, and actually, while you're at it, try 1:1:4:4:0:0:0 too. That last one is just to make sure HandBrake is reading the source as top field first, on the off-chance your source is read by HandBrake's file input decoding process and not the DVD/MPEG-2 Stream one.
randomreuben
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Re: How do I select EEDI2 deinterlacer for videos?

Post by randomreuben »

Hi,

I don't have the ability to make a short PAL source unfortunately. :(

I will however try out the settings you mentioned tonight. There is a particularly troublesome video that I have and I shall try your settings. Because I've never done anything like a custom setting before for detelecine, do I simply copy and paste your settings for the detelecine once I choose the "Custom" setting?

Much appreciated,

Reuben
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Re: How do I select EEDI2 deinterlacer for videos?

Post by apprentice »

So in the windows version i go to video filters, decomb, select custom and use 8, 9 or 11?

Because i used 8 and 9 on a pal dv source. The result is interlaced. Nothing happened. I used to get ok results with 0.9.3 . But this new custom option won't really work for me yet.
Unless i do something wrong.
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Re: How do I select EEDI2 deinterlacer for videos?

Post by Rodeo »

apprentice wrote:So in the windows version i go to video filters, decomb, select custom and use 8, 9 or 11?

Because i used 8 and 9 on a pal dv source. The result is interlaced. Nothing happened. I used to get ok results with 0.9.3 . But this new custom option won't really work for me yet.
Unless i do something wrong.
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Re: How do I select EEDI2 deinterlacer for videos?

Post by apprentice »

jbrjake
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Re: How do I select EEDI2 deinterlacer for videos?

Post by jbrjake »

....why did you say "nothing happened" when your log shows decomb filtered ~10,000 out of ~25,000 frames?

For some inexplicable reason you've shoehorned DV into the .avi format instead of using a standard mpeg file format. By doing this you're forcing HB to use ffmpeg to decode it instead of doing it internally. This strips parity information. Does the filtering look better if you specify the parity is 1, BFF?
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Re: How do I select EEDI2 deinterlacer for videos?

Post by apprentice »

Because it looks like nothing happened.

I am talking about DV here, not HDV which uses mpeg-2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DV

File-based media

DV-AVI is DV video wrapped into AVI container. Two variants of wrapping is available: with Type 1 the multiplexed audio and video is saved into the video section of a single AVI file, with Type 2 only video is saved in AVI file, audio is saved in a separate file. This container is used primarily on Windows machines.

I will try your suggestion tomorrow.

Edit: But i don't think it is a wrong field order problem. Because it does not look like that.
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Re: How do I select EEDI2 deinterlacer for videos?

Post by apprentice »

Just want to say that Handbrake's Decomb is just really poor on encoding my PAL DV videos. I am considering to use Super encoder again, because it accepts avisynth files. That way i can use Yadif or Toms Mocomp. Both of which aren't perfect deinterlacers (jagged edges etc) But it's a lot better than interlacing left in Handbrake encoded video's. Both of which Vimeo and Youtube don't handle properly, so the vids start to hick up.
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Re: How do I select EEDI2 deinterlacer for videos?

Post by jbrjake »

What a calculatedly unhelpful comment. By choosing to provide neither a log nor a sample of your source there is absolutely nothing I can possibly do about your problem. Did you post for any reason except to complain? It certainly seems like that was your only objective.
apprentice wrote:I am considering to use Super encoder again, because it accepts avisynth files. That way i can use Yadif
This is utterly absurd. Please explain to me how issues with the combing detection in decomb prevents you from using yadif in HandBrake.

EDIT:
I also love how you never followed up on the suggestion I gave you, despite saying you would.
randomreuben
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Re: How do I select EEDI2 deinterlacer for videos?

Post by randomreuben »

Dear jbrjake,

I put the different detelecine codes you suggested into the "Custom" field and I still saw no difference. There's no problem with my NTSC videos, but the PAL videos still show a stutter regularly with Detelecine, Decomb in any combination.

Right now I'm backing up my PAL videos by turing off Detelecine, Decomb and Deinterlace. It works for me because I convert to .mkv files and I use the Blend feature in VLC to play the videos to play the interlaced content.

My offer to send you a PAL DVD still stands, but if you want to get one for yourself to try, the DVD "No Direction Home" http://www.amazon.co.uk/No-Direction-Ho ... 648&sr=8-1 is one that showed a lot of stuttering.

I am delighted with Handbrake, it's a wonderful piece of software and keep up the fantastic work! Thank you!

Reuben
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Re: How do I select EEDI2 deinterlacer for videos?

Post by apprentice »

I posted a log before.

Also i tried using '1' or decomb default. It did not make a difference.

How about your comment, where you said i was doing something for an 'inexplicable reason', when it actually turns out you don't (or did not) really know about the DV format.

And i don't seem to get any reply on my other topic as well. It makes me lose trust in Handbrake.
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Rodeo
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Re: How do I select EEDI2 deinterlacer for videos?

Post by Rodeo »

apprentice wrote:Also i tried using '1' or decomb default. It did not make a difference.
1) HandBrake has deinterlace as an alternative to decomb, so if your source is fully interlaced you may want to use that instead. The Slow and Slower modes both use yadif too.

2) Did you notice decomb takes many more parameters than just the mode? If you find it's not aggressive enough, you can change that.

http://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/Decomb#options
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Re: How do I select EEDI2 deinterlacer for videos?

Post by jbrjake »

apprentice wrote:I posted a log before.
Not a log from after I told you what to do.
Also i tried using '1' or decomb default. It did not make a difference.
Which is not what I told you to do.
How about your comment, where you said i was doing something for an 'inexplicable reason', when it actually turns out you don't (or did not) really know about the DV format.
AVI is not part of the DV format. It's inexplicable, because you're choosing to mux DV into a container that does not allow HB to know the parity, and then telling HB to autoset the parity. Makes absolutely no sense. Utterly inexplicable.

I clearly know more about DV than you, since I'm the one telling you you need to set a bottom field first parity in the filter when reading DV in a non-MPEG format, and you're ignoring me and using TFF filtering, even though DV, of course, is BFF.
It makes me lose trust in Handbrake.
Well if it makes you feel any better, it makes me lose a lot of respect for HandBrake users when they ignore simple suggestions.
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Re: How do I select EEDI2 deinterlacer for videos?

Post by apprentice »

I am not choosing anything. It's the way FCP and Adobe export the format.

Forget it anyway, i am now back with Super and Avisynth, so i have a lot more manual control and i can use TempGaussMC which does a whole lot better than the build in deinterlace filters from Handbrake.
Also, Handbrake can't handle dv-avi files bigger than 2gb. Results in a green screen + audio hickup. See the other thread. Months later, still not fixed. Bad!
mduell
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Re: How do I select EEDI2 deinterlacer for videos?

Post by mduell »

apprentice wrote:Also, Handbrake can't handle dv-avi files bigger than 2gb. Results in a green screen + audio hickup. See the other thread. Months later, still not fixed. Bad!
:roll:
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